Harlequins
***Corydora Crazy***
I wouldn't touch your ph,your ph is fine has it is,lowering the ph will cause problems when you start your fishless cycle...
Here We Go
- Thread starter Razgriz
- Start date
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Razgriz
New Member
Ah right, I thought it might be a little high for my fish (when I get them). Most of them seem to be slightly acidic to neutral. How come above 7 will be ok? Not that I dont trust you or anything, I'm just curious 
Went into my local Boots today and they were all out of Amonia, curses!
Have ordered some off the boots website, that will arive monday or tuesday hopefully, then with some plants over the weekend, I should be able to start my cycle.
Thanks for all your help so far everyone, really appreciate it!
Went into my local Boots today and they were all out of Amonia, curses!
Have ordered some off the boots website, that will arive monday or tuesday hopefully, then with some plants over the weekend, I should be able to start my cycle.
Thanks for all your help so far everyone, really appreciate it!
About pH...
A higher pH is better for cycling as the bacteria grow better in a more alkaline enviroment.
Yes, most fish came originally from slightly acidic waters, but nearly all aquarium fish are many, many generations away from wild fish and have learnt to adapt to differing pH values. What's more important to fish is stability.
Most times higher pH goes hand in hand with dissolved minerals; these will very rapidly buffer the pH back up if you lower it and this causes swings in pH that are very bad for the fish.
It's easy to raise pH but quite hard to lower it and you're better off working around the pH and hardness you have rather than trying to adjust it.
A higher pH is better for cycling as the bacteria grow better in a more alkaline enviroment.
Yes, most fish came originally from slightly acidic waters, but nearly all aquarium fish are many, many generations away from wild fish and have learnt to adapt to differing pH values. What's more important to fish is stability.
Most times higher pH goes hand in hand with dissolved minerals; these will very rapidly buffer the pH back up if you lower it and this causes swings in pH that are very bad for the fish.
It's easy to raise pH but quite hard to lower it and you're better off working around the pH and hardness you have rather than trying to adjust it.
Shovelman
Fish Addict
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Hey Razgriz, I read this post, and couldn't resist commenting. Angel fish are a BIG NO in a 20 gallon tank! I know its a bummer, as it was for me which is why I'm getting a 55 gallon, but if your open to suggestions i have some! I also have a 20 gallon (already cycled) and will be adding a pair of German Blue Rams! GBR are a type of dwarf cichlid that stay small (max size of about 3-3 1/2 inch)and are among some of the most peaceful cichlids there are (watch out with male female pairs as they might get a bit weary if they start to breed). Also GBR should not be added as the first fish, as they are not the most tolerant of toxins (ammonia, nitrate) in the tank, but if you have yours up and running for a while they should do fine!
Another excellent fish is the Indian Dwarf Puffer fish, if your into exotic species. I have one myself and i must say they are awesome! There are a few restrictions however. A. 1 puffer for every 5 gallons, so a total of 4 or so max in your 20 gallon, they also grow to only 1 inch so just know that they are tiny which also explains their name as the pea puffer. Another thing as with most freshwater puffers, is they are aggressive and dont do good with any other fish, EXCEPT Ottos ( a type of dwarf sucker mouth catfish AKA algae eaters). For some reason they don't mind them! So overall DP's are very cool fish, its just you have that restriction of no other fish besides ottos.
I hope this may help, and look forward to hearing from you. PS: starter fish- Barbs are good as they are HARDY! as well as some guppy's DON'T start with tetras!
Another excellent fish is the Indian Dwarf Puffer fish, if your into exotic species. I have one myself and i must say they are awesome! There are a few restrictions however. A. 1 puffer for every 5 gallons, so a total of 4 or so max in your 20 gallon, they also grow to only 1 inch so just know that they are tiny which also explains their name as the pea puffer. Another thing as with most freshwater puffers, is they are aggressive and dont do good with any other fish, EXCEPT Ottos ( a type of dwarf sucker mouth catfish AKA algae eaters). For some reason they don't mind them! So overall DP's are very cool fish, its just you have that restriction of no other fish besides ottos.
I hope this may help, and look forward to hearing from you. PS: starter fish- Barbs are good as they are HARDY! as well as some guppy's DON'T start with tetras!
OP
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Razgriz
New Member
Ah right, that makes sense, thanks for the info.
Now time for a Tank Update!
Went out to get some plants today, aquarium looks so much better with some greens! Couldn't find any amonia though, looks like it will be an internet order from Boots.
Next I'm going to find a nice background (or maybe go with black) and some smaller plants to fill up the front of the tank, maybe a couple more large ones for the back.
As for those Blue Rams, mmm they do look pretty awesome Shovelman!
I'm thinking I will start off with some Pearl/Leopard/Zebra Danio's, from what I have read they are peaceful/active/hardy so they should do well once I finish cycling.
After that some Tetra, obviosuly wait until my tank is mature, probably go with Cardinal's.
Then for my "centre piece" fish I was thinking a betta or maybe a pair of Killifish, but now that GBR is starting to look very appealing.
The puffers looks pretty cool but I think I am set on a peaceful community tank rather than a species I'm afraid, I like variety
Now time for a Tank Update!
Went out to get some plants today, aquarium looks so much better with some greens! Couldn't find any amonia though, looks like it will be an internet order from Boots.
Next I'm going to find a nice background (or maybe go with black) and some smaller plants to fill up the front of the tank, maybe a couple more large ones for the back.
As for those Blue Rams, mmm they do look pretty awesome Shovelman!
I'm thinking I will start off with some Pearl/Leopard/Zebra Danio's, from what I have read they are peaceful/active/hardy so they should do well once I finish cycling.
After that some Tetra, obviosuly wait until my tank is mature, probably go with Cardinal's.
Then for my "centre piece" fish I was thinking a betta or maybe a pair of Killifish, but now that GBR is starting to look very appealing.
The puffers looks pretty cool but I think I am set on a peaceful community tank rather than a species I'm afraid, I like variety
Harlequins
***Corydora Crazy***
Looking good 
Word of warning over the betta,depending whether its a chilled betta or aggressive betta,they all have their different moods and usually best in their own separate tank rather than a community tank and may become aggressive to tank mates...
Word of warning over the betta,depending whether its a chilled betta or aggressive betta,they all have their different moods and usually best in their own separate tank rather than a community tank and may become aggressive to tank mates...
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
Hi Razgriz,
Did you get any plant nutrients to feed those plants? A new tank is very devoid of plant nutrients at first so you might want some very small doses of a plant nutrient, perhaps with a little iron in it. Depending on your continent we can make suggestions.
I would minimize your light to 4 hours (all in one go (or photoperiod as we call it.)) Later you will probably be able to increase this if you are not beginning to get algae. Algae are triggered by light plus ammonia and pretty soon that's exactly what you'll be providing in large amounts and for many weeks!
...acually, since you mentioned ordering Boots ammonia over the internet I'm going to assume you're in the UK and make the suggestion of a fertilizer from Tropica called Tropica Plant Nutrition Plus (the plus part is imortant as there's a different one without the plus) which you will frequently see abbreviated on this forum as "TPN+." I would dose this in amounts somewhat smaller than perhaps is suggested but I would try to divide my dosing up so that some is going in every day in tiny amounts for our beginning situation. Once there are fish after they fishless cycle, they will provide a lot of the nutrients.
Let us know when your Boots ammonia arrives! You can use the calculator on this web page to get an estimate of the dose for the number of Liters/US-gallons you put in the tank and then can dose a little low and test to see what you get - then raise a little if you seem to be below the 4ppm or whatever is easy to read in the 3-5ppm range of your ammonia testing kit (what kit do you have again?)
~~waterdrop~~
Did you get any plant nutrients to feed those plants? A new tank is very devoid of plant nutrients at first so you might want some very small doses of a plant nutrient, perhaps with a little iron in it. Depending on your continent we can make suggestions.
I would minimize your light to 4 hours (all in one go (or photoperiod as we call it.)) Later you will probably be able to increase this if you are not beginning to get algae. Algae are triggered by light plus ammonia and pretty soon that's exactly what you'll be providing in large amounts and for many weeks!
...acually, since you mentioned ordering Boots ammonia over the internet I'm going to assume you're in the UK and make the suggestion of a fertilizer from Tropica called Tropica Plant Nutrition Plus (the plus part is imortant as there's a different one without the plus) which you will frequently see abbreviated on this forum as "TPN+." I would dose this in amounts somewhat smaller than perhaps is suggested but I would try to divide my dosing up so that some is going in every day in tiny amounts for our beginning situation. Once there are fish after they fishless cycle, they will provide a lot of the nutrients.
Let us know when your Boots ammonia arrives! You can use the calculator on this web page to get an estimate of the dose for the number of Liters/US-gallons you put in the tank and then can dose a little low and test to see what you get - then raise a little if you seem to be below the 4ppm or whatever is easy to read in the 3-5ppm range of your ammonia testing kit (what kit do you have again?)
~~waterdrop~~
OP
OP
Razgriz
New Member
No I didn't get any plant food, I guess thats another thing to add to the shopping list, will pick some up tomorrow hopefully. What is the best place to get that from? I've checked my LFS website and they do not have it listed, and amazon only seems to have the regular version (no plus).
So far I have only put the light on to see what the tank looks like set up, not left it on for more than 5 minutes yet. I have a timer somewhere so I will dig that out and set it to 4 hours once I get my amonia. (And yes I am in the UK)
I have the API Master Test Kit Used it and my tap water is pH 6.4-6.6, There is a trace of amonia in it - 0.25 ppm and no NitrIte or NitrAte.
Also, would adding a little fish food (Got some flakes when I picked up my tank) help to kick start the cycle or should I just wait for the amonia (should be delivered in 3-5 days)
So far I have only put the light on to see what the tank looks like set up, not left it on for more than 5 minutes yet. I have a timer somewhere so I will dig that out and set it to 4 hours once I get my amonia. (And yes I am in the UK)
I have the API Master Test Kit
Used it and my tap water is pH 6.4-6.6, There is a trace of amonia in it - 0.25 ppm and no NitrIte or NitrAte.Also, would adding a little fish food (Got some flakes when I picked up my tank) help to kick start the cycle or should I just wait for the amonia (should be delivered in 3-5 days)
Shovelman
Fish Addict
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Ah right, that makes sense, thanks for the info.
Now time for a Tank Update!
Went out to get some plants today, aquarium looks so much better with some greens! Couldn't find any amonia though, looks like it will be an internet order from Boots.
Next I'm going to find a nice background (or maybe go with black) and some smaller plants to fill up the front of the tank, maybe a couple more large ones for the back.
As for those Blue Rams, mmm they do look pretty awesome Shovelman!
I'm thinking I will start off with some Pearl/Leopard/Zebra Danio's, from what I have read they are peaceful/active/hardy so they should do well once I finish cycling.
After that some Tetra, obviosuly wait until my tank is mature, probably go with Cardinal's.
Then for my "centre piece" fish I was thinking a betta or maybe a pair of Killifish, but now that GBR is starting to look very appealing.
The puffers looks pretty cool but I think I am set on a peaceful community tank rather than a species I'm afraid, I like variety
Yeah GBR are pretty cool! (And amazing colors!) IT sounds like you have evrything ready to go! Good luck!
The fish food will definitely do things for you. One thing it will do is start producing some ammonia. Another and perhaps more important thing that it will do is to break down into things that your plants can use as fertilizers. The proteins in fish foods contain lots of nitrogen, carbon and even phosphorus. All of these contribute to the plant's growth. In the early stages of a planted tank, the trace minerals are far more likely to be lacking than the basic NPK. Almost anything we do with a living environment will provide plenty of the big 3 fertilizers but may not provide the traces needed by the plants.
OP
OP
Razgriz
New Member
Thats handy then. I've added two pinches of flakes and will do a water test in the morning.
OP
OP
Razgriz
New Member
Yay, my Amonia came this morning Using the calculater on this site, added 5ml to my tank.
Created a cycle log on Excel so I can keep an eye on what I'm doing.
Soon will be able to get some fish
Thanks for all the help so far everyone, greatly appreciated
Using the calculater on this site, added 5ml to my tank.Created a cycle log on Excel so I can keep an eye on what I'm doing.
Soon will be able to get some fish
Thanks for all the help so far everyone, greatly appreciated
RustedKnight
Fish Addict
Yay, my Amonia came this morning
Created a cycle log on Excel so I can keep an eye on what I'm doing.
Soon will be able to get some fish
Thanks for all the help so far everyone, greatly appreciated
Tank looks good!
I would definately suggest some rams, or other dwarf cichlids.. the colours are amazing, and they have personalities to boot.
In a tank your size you could probably get a pair of rams/dwarf cichlids, and maybe a few catfish.. pygmy corydora are nice, as are otocinclus.
I'm combining rams and bumblebee goby's in my tank, means my water has to be slightly brackish though (means lightly salted).. would be very interested to see what you end up getting n_n
Rusty.
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
I couldn't find any link to your excel spreadsheet in your first post up there. There are a number of fishless cyclers who have figured out how to display their spreadsheets in various ways in their fishless cycling thread here on the forum. This helps the members spot problems for you at the earliest possible time, sometimes saving you cycling days.
You are at the beginning of a fishless cycle. Sometimes when they are slow they take about 70 days to complete. A lot of times they go faster than that. We usually recommend a temp of 29C/84F and hope for a pH close to the optimal 8.0 to 8.4 range. Toward the end of a fishless cycle you sometimes have to watch the pH a little more closely so that it doesn't "crash" down toward 6.0 to 6.2, causing the bacteria to hold off in their processing.
There are three phases of fishless cycling: pre-Nitrite Spike, during Nitrite Spike and post-Nitrite Spike. The Nitrite Spike is when the measured Nitrite(NO2) level in your tank goes as high or higher than what your liquid Nitrite test can measure. There are various frustrations with each of the phases, so plan to just hang in there and take it all in stride! If you plan now to not give up, time will eventually be on your side!
~~waterdrop~~
You are at the beginning of a fishless cycle. Sometimes when they are slow they take about 70 days to complete. A lot of times they go faster than that. We usually recommend a temp of 29C/84F and hope for a pH close to the optimal 8.0 to 8.4 range. Toward the end of a fishless cycle you sometimes have to watch the pH a little more closely so that it doesn't "crash" down toward 6.0 to 6.2, causing the bacteria to hold off in their processing.
There are three phases of fishless cycling: pre-Nitrite Spike, during Nitrite Spike and post-Nitrite Spike. The Nitrite Spike is when the measured Nitrite(NO2) level in your tank goes as high or higher than what your liquid Nitrite test can measure. There are various frustrations with each of the phases, so plan to just hang in there and take it all in stride! If you plan now to not give up, time will eventually be on your side!
~~waterdrop~~
Timmy_Bee
Fishaholic
looking good!
a nice black background usually brings out the colours in the fish, so that would be a good choice.
a nice black background usually brings out the colours in the fish, so that would be a good choice.
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