Help

[zoe_sam666]

well im asking for my boyfriend fropm the start he have had his tank from the 16/9/09 and the next day once set-up he added 5 danios(leopard one) to cyle the tank and left them in there for 2 weeks and having his water checked by the fish shop and after 2 weeks it was fine to add more so he only added 4 rumess (red nose) and they was fine too after 1 weeks again once water test came back fine from amoia(spelling) and nitrate he asked and the shop sed its okay to add more so he added 8 neons and i think two rubber nose suckers, they was find he done a water changed coz they sed so he done that and he did put his hand in there to move the plants coz u have to separate them to grow after that 2 red nose died and a danio the shop test his water and it came back like normal so they sed it could be stress from not enough fish so he added 4 glass fish and a betta about 2 days after the one cat fish and betta died, they give him a refund by selling fish for free if u understand.
well i cant remeber 100% coz so many died but he ended up with 1 red nose and 3 danios 3 glass cat fish and his 8 neons and 2 rubber noses left well they sed get more fish to make them happy so he went out got 5 more red nose, 8 smaller ones (cant remebr names), 4 zebra danios, 1 apple snail, 8 albino glow lights and i think thats it and the fish was happy they looked better now this has happen since last week he got 10 shrimp and one of the small 8 died and got a replacement of that coz they test his water before replace and it came back great. and now yesterday 1 rubber nose and red nose died the one of the 8 looked ill and by this morning what is dead is more so since yesterdaya nd today here what dead 2 red nose, 1 rubber nose, 2 zebra danios, 2 small, 2 neons i think and the pet shop dont under stand y and my boyfriend is getting upset over fish lol i want to help him.

right now for the understanding bit, he got a jewel 125 i think with heater filter and light the heat in the tank is 26-27 and gravel is sand he got a bit of plants for the fish and 2 caves we feed them everyday like a diffderent diet like brime shrimp or blood worm and fish flakes.

the pet shop checked his water today and nothing worng with it so we was told to give the tank a 30% change every other day and to clean the filter the problem is he havnt had it long, my boyfirned have done research on this before getting and i was shocked how he knew so much. any idea i will answer as much as i can.

 

[aly_starh]

The tank is no where near cycled, Tetras and shrimp need really mature tanks of atleast 6 months.
My best advice would be to rehome all the current fish etc you have in the tank and start again, your tank has suffered from a massive Ammonia Spike. I would also say buy your own test kit, a liquid one, they are the most accurate, and can be picked up from EBay quite cheaply. the thing with taking a sample to your Fish shop is that all the ammonia etc evaporate from the water, making the test results not reliable.

Now to Cycle the tank, you can choose either Fish-In or Fish-Less, CLICK

In the mean time please dont buy anymore fish.
Hope that helps

EDIT: ok it doesnt evaporate but it does come out after time. Same concept.

 

[fatheadminnow]

to TFF!

I am sorry to inform you that your LFS (Local fish Shop) staff have given your boy friend Wrong Information! Fish stores function from a financial stand point, and not for the well being of the fish. Meaning, they can care less if your fish die or your water is bad, but will tell you to get more fish anyways, just so they can get your money.

First of all, I am nearly 100% sure that his water is NOT safe for fish at this time. Meaning he has either high ammoina, and/or nigh nitrite.

You guys NEED to purchase a good LIQUID test kit. I suggest the API Fresh water master test kit, or the Nutrafin mini master test kit. DO NOT rely on your LFS to do your water tests. Your LFS more than likely use strip test kits to test your water. Strip test kits are extremely inaccurate and no good!

Your boy friend's tank is in now what is called a fish-in cycle. You need to read about it here, and understand this and what to do.

So, make sure you get out and get a Liquid test kit ASAP! And read what I gave you above!

Don't be afraid to ask any questions you have! We are more than happy to answer them!

-FHM

 

[Curiosity101]

The ammonia doesn't evaporate from the water sample.

However fish shops will often tell you everything is 'fine' for 1 of 2 reasons.
1. They haven't a clue what is 'fine'
2. They just want to sell you fish, if you have ammonia and nitrites in your water they know this will kill/cause your fish to develop a disease. That way you come back and spend more (as it looks like you already have done!)

You need to read up on
Fish-in Cycling - Which is the process you will be in if you choose to keep all of the fish.
Fishless Cycling - If you choose to re-home the fish and start again with a fishless cycle.

Betta_246 gave you a link, but it isn't the best one. Please follow the links I have provided.

Just a few tips/bits of advice...
Do 2 x 50% water changes, this will hopefully help save some of your fish.
DONT listen to fish shops and their advice, more often than not they are wrong.
Get your own test kit, betta is correct that the liquid ones are best, API Liquid Master test kit is the most widely used and can be bought for around £18
You will find that even once you sort out the problems with water quality that you will probably get more fish deaths. This is inevitable, they will have been severely poisoned over the past weeks. This is another reason I would suggest taking them back. I can guarantee they will die soon (less than 6months), where as they should live for upwards of 2 years. So if you can get a refund now then you will really save money in the long run.

Also, how do you clean the filter? You only need to clean it when the flow slows down, and even then only ever clean it in old tank water. If you clean it in tap water then you could easily kill the bacteria that you need to grow to cycle the tank.

 

[OldMan47]

First things first, welcome to the forum Zoe Sam.
Curiosity has given some good advice to get your fish on the road to safety in your tanks. A large, 75% or more, water change will improve the water quality quite a bit just as a pair of smaller 50% changes would do. After the first day, a 50% water change daily until you can get that test kit would likely keep all of the remaining fish alive.
Don't forget to use the dechlorinator on the new water and make sure it is about the same temperature as the water that you take out. If you drain water far enough to be a problem with the filter, unplug it while you are doing the change. Most heaters will become exposed to the air and burn up during a water change unless you unplug them before you start, just don't forget to plug things back in when you are done. You are in a fish-in cycle and this is meant only as emergency advice, it is a poor way to go through a cycle. You really should get that test kit, one that tests at least pH, ammonia and nitrites. A nitrate test would be nice to have but you can do without it if you can't find a kit you like that has one. Nitrates can guide you on doing water changes once the cycle is complete, but a simple 30% weekly water change is almost always enough and you can do that without the measurement. As with most of us, I also have a link to a fish-in cycle thread, people arrive here all the time in the middle of one, just like you did.

 

[zoe_sam666]

The tank is no where near cycled, Tetras and shrimp need really mature tanks of atleast 6 months.
My best advice would be to rehome all the current fish etc you have in the tank and start again, your tank has suffered from a massive Ammonia Spike. I would also say buy your own test kit, a liquid one, they are the most accurate, and can be picked up from EBay quite cheaply. the thing with taking a sample to your Fish shop is that all the ammonia etc evaporate from the water, making the test results not reliable.

Now to Cycle the tank, you can choose either Fish-In or Fish-Less, CLICK

In the mean time please dont buy anymore fish.
Hope that helps

EDIT: ok it doesnt evaporate but it does come out after time. Same concept.

we got the test kit ower selfs and test it all the time its prefect. we payed just under £30 for it.
he isnt getting anymore but he was told all this buy the fish shop they sell marine fish too.

to TFF!

I am sorry to inform you that your LFS (Local fish Shop) staff have given your boy friend Wrong Information! Fish stores function from a financial stand point, and not for the well being of the fish. Meaning, they can care less if your fish die or your water is bad, but will tell you to get more fish anyways, just so they can get your money.

First of all, I am nearly 100% sure that his water is NOT safe for fish at this time. Meaning he has either high ammoina, and/or nigh nitrite.

You guys NEED to purchase a good LIQUID test kit. I suggest the API Fresh water master test kit, or the Nutrafin mini master test kit. DO NOT rely on your LFS to do your water tests. Your LFS more than likely use strip test kits to test your water. Strip test kits are extremely inaccurate and no good!

Your boy friend's tank is in now what is called a fish-in cycle. You need to read about it here, and understand this and what to do.

So, make sure you get out and get a Liquid test kit ASAP! And read what I gave you above!

Don't be afraid to ask any questions you have! We are more than happy to answer them!

-FHM

he have asked over 3 different shops they have given him different answers, they now telling him not to liston to people on internet and get a bigger tank and get larger fish.

right sorry for all the replys

i wish he was here to type and tell u everything im no good at this lol well he got no amoinra or nitrate in the tank we got the kit for that and checked and also we got the stuff to take clawreen out (spelling) and we got some stuff for the plants i feel sorry for my bf more fish has die he is going to do a big water changed he is goign to clean his filter in his old fish water too..

 

[Curiosity101]

It is up to your boyfriend who's advice he trusts more, but as you can see the tank has had a LOT of problems. We don't make a profit from giving you advice, we just want you to have a happy tank.

There is alot of experience here that can put you on the right track and give you a happy healthy tank.

What exactly are the test results? Could you go and test the tank now?
We need...
Ammonia -
Nitrites -
Nitrates -
pH -

And also could you perhaps list exactly what is in the tank at the moment?

I hope you realise that we're actually here to help, and that the info you get here 99.9% of the time will be correct, and will help you and your boyfriend out much more that any fish shop!

 

[zoe_sam666]

yes i know u helping i was just saying what the shop sed lol
he just done a 80% water change and he will do a test now with the kit we got.
4 leoprad danios
4 rummy noses
1 rubber nose
2 zebra danios
2 wild green neons
5 harliqunes
8 albino glow lights
5 cherry shrimp 5 ghost shrimp
3 glass cat fish
1 apple snail.
thats all he got some died today.

he just done a 30% water change not 80% i heared him worng he cleaned the filter and he put Nutrafin (tape water condisioner)

 

[zoe_sam666]

Ammonia - 0 ppm
Nitrites - 0 ppm
Nitrates - 0 ppm
pH - 6.0
the ph was on 7.6 the day i posted this but he put a bit of salt in to help the fish we was told to do so and thats why its gone to 6.0 any ideas?

omg he is driving me nuts lol
im on the phone to him he just done it again coz he had some tape water in it and its now on 7.2 thats the PH lol

 

[Curiosity101]

Wow that tank is seriously overstocked, or rather will be once the fish get towards full size.

For a tank that has been set up for only 5 weeks that is actually a deadly amount of fish. The tank wont be cycled, therefore your water stats wont be fine like you said they were. I'm sorry for the way that sounds, I'm not trying to be mean in any way, but it is the truth.

With that amount of fish, and with the sheer volume of deaths, the tank will have sky high ammonia! He really needs to do another water change, at least 50%

And I really really really would return all those fish. I know this will sound horrible, but those fish wont make it past the end of the month. If it were me then I would take them back and do a fishless cycle (see the links posted earlier).
Alternatively the majority (90%) of those fish need to be returned anyways. Partly because it will be very overstocked once they grow towards adulthood, and secondly because it'll take soooo long to cycle with that many fish. So more will just carry on dying.

If it were me I would go for the fishless cycle.
But alternatively I would suggest only keeping either the 6 danios OR the 5 harlequins.

Edit: not to be disrespectful but there is NO WAY that the water is registering 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites. Also the reason the pH could have plummeted to 6 is due to all the ammonia dissolved in the water and making it more acididc

 

[zoe_sam666]

the shop told us we though it was too many.
also he done the change and i posted the test he done for you

he have spent #105### loads on fish and they would feed them to the paranas but how come the amoina isnt showing up on the test kit we got the API fresh water master test kit.

we have test it before getting fish and every time one has died but we dont under stand the tank showing up no problem on the test.

i swear to you this is why we are puzzled and the shop coz the test isnt showing any signs thats why i came here to someone who may know we would of though there would be something worng but there is 0 ppm op all apart from the PH thats 7.2 ill make him do another now.

if u dont belive us i will take a pictues step by step 2morrow coz he got work in a hour and we live 30min from eachother i could try and do a video and put it on youtube to show u.

please someone must know???
has anyone had this happen before, my boyfriend wouldnt added the fish if he knew they would dye

 

[Curiosity101]

Surely you can return them for store credit? They will die if left in the tank they're in at the moment. And on top of that, with that many fish the ammonia will be sky high, this develops the wrong bacteria so it means cycling takes much longer (the bacteria we want would only start growing once the wrong set lowered the ammonia of ammonia)

However much he has spent...as I've said several times, if they stay in that tank they will die, soon. It's worth trying to return them for store credit. Tell them how poor there customer service is, and the advice etc. Reason with them, tell them they wouldn't be refuding you the whole amount as lots of fish have already died. But it's only fair they accept responsibility and give you a refund.
Also, within a week of selling I'm pretty sure it's law they have to refund you any fish that have died (though you do need proof by showing them the dead bodies).

The only reason I can think that the ammonia isn't showing up is because the test is being done incorrectly...it's easy to get it wrong.
It needs to be done carefully step by step (read the instructions as you do it), and list any changes you see.

EG. when nitrites are off the charts, the drops turn purple instantly but then return back to bluey/gray...so some people think it's 0ppm.

The ammonia test doesn't do quite the same, I think it just keeps going darker green. But really, a careful re-test should hopefully resolve the problem.

 

[Curiosity101]

You don't need to go as far as doing a video! , It's not that I don't belive you. I'd just stake my life on there being high levels ammonia in that water, so something must be going wrong.

Have you checked the use by date on the bottles?
Are you shaking them properly before using them?
Are the instructions being followed to the letter?
And are they being left for the correct amount of time?
Oh and are you taking the test water straight from the tank?

People have had this happen many times before, and it'll be due to water quality and an un cycled tank.
I'm 100% that it isn't your boyfriends fault, you can only go on the advice you're given (until you hit the internet and start doing your own research of course! )

 

[zoe_sam666]

they say if the fish die in 48 hours then a refuded on fish but its been over that and dying everyday now, he have asked and they have done test themself everyday we been down there and we have been doing it, im not with him atm he is getting ready for work but its up the top of the charts i think and he read the booklet before doing it thats weeks ago and we have done it and ive tested my tank and it did come out different but i tested it the other day and its fine.

we not doing the test worng coz we do it everyday and weve seen the shop do it.
thats the puzzling thing we dont have a clue whats gone worng lol or the shop i know alot of people dont trust them im like that with reptiles in shops but this time they dont know.

the test kit is doing its job coz my tank has done it and he is 20 yrs old so he isnt a young kid playing around if u understand he has read the back of the cards when doing it and put them by eachother to make sure they correct. he has done this everyday hoping it will change so we know that we can find the problem..

Have you checked the use by date on the bottles? no we havnt but ill phone him now
Are you shaking them properly before using them? yes
Are the instructions being followed to the letter? yes
And are they being left for the correct amount of time? yes
Oh and are you taking the test water straight from the tank? yes we taking it from the tank and fulling the little tubes up.

 

[aly_starh]

^^ Agreed, there is no way that the ammonia readings at this satge in time could be 0.

This may have been said above, but does the OP, have test strips or a liquid kit?