Help With Tetras/Misc.

[Waz]

Help guys....bought my son a new tropical tank for his birthday and as expected, I have ended up looking after it ! I am actually enjoying it and wished I got into this hobby sooner.

Anyway, I have a 45 Litre tank with a filter and heater (set to 25-26 degrees) and all seems well. I added 12 Neon Tetras and 3 guppys (orange ones!). The tank has two lights on the top..one blue and one white. The fish seems fine and swim around OK when no lights are on but as soon as I turn any of the lights on, the tetras go crazy. They don't stop and the only way to calm then down is to switch the light off. Should I cover the light with a cloth to reduce the amount of light coming through ?

2. The tetras tend to swim in a group together near the bottom of the tank - all except one who is on his own all the time and swims around mid tank....any particular reason for this ?
3. I want to add a little more colour to the tank and add some more fish. Any recommendations on types of fish to add ?
4. On a 45 Litre tank, what would be the ideal limit in terms of numbers of fish ?
5. How often should you feed the guys ? I was told in the shop once a day but on the tin of flakey food, it states several times a day. Also, the guppys tend to stick around the top eating when I drop in the food...does any of the grub make it way to the bottom for the Tetras? Should I try some different food ?


Sorry for all these questions but I have got into it so much, I am keen to learn lots more.
Thanks in advance.
Waz

 

[mbsqw1d]

hey waz welcome!

Lighting, unless you have live plants in the tank, is all about personal preference. Fish don't really need it. If you think the level of light is ok then thats fine.

Regarding the tetras, it is normal for them to be startled when the lights come on as it's a very unatural thing to happen (mine still are, but tend to settle down after a few minutes.)

You could get some plants, either live or artificial, this will give them some cover and make them more comfortable. Or, what I have done is (very crudely) stuck a GU10 7 watt flourescent spot light onto the side of the tank. These tend to become brighter over the course of a few minutes. I have them on plug timers, so the GU10 comes on 10 minutes before the main lights.

There may be a reason for the neon to swim solitary - just keep your eye on him for anymore symptoms

You might want to get more guppys and even out the numbers of male and female (if you have any). You might find that these breed readily Have you considered a theme for your tank? Have a look into where fish come from in the wild for example and try and get some that match naturally.

A 45 Litre tank is about 10 gallons and they generally say 1 inch of fish per gallon of water. This is a very basic rule and there are more factors involved depending on which fish you get. For example, Angel Fish require big tanks, at least 180 litres, and just because you might say they are 3 or 4 inches worth of fish, doesnt mean you can put them in a small tank to make up the numbers.

Feeding. Your fish arent going to need much food at all! Tetras might look hungry and are feisty eaters, but again, consider theyre natural lifestyle in the wild. Fish will go for days without food at times, and so when food is around, they dont mess about!! I feed mine once to twice a day and every so often I will starve them for a day.

You could look into some catfish. I have 9 Corydoras. Brilliant little fish and great to watch. They are the hoovers of the fishtank but also great fish to watch - very active

One question for you. Did you cycle your tank before adding any fish?

Regards, Martin.

ps.. this forum is great and I've learned tonnes from the guys here

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Waz and Welcome to TFF!

You've really got 3 problems with the neons potentially. They aren't used to their new environment yet, leaving them quite disturbed by the light and looking for the cover of plants etc. Secondly there's an unfortunate problem that neons generally don't do (statistically) well in tanks prior to the tank having aged about 6 months (yes I know, a shock!) and thirdly and most importantly, the tank probably isn't "cycled" yet.

It actually, ideally, takes a knowledgeable hobbyist up to about 2 months to get the water chemistry of a tank ready to handle fish. The filters that you buy in stores are really just hardware "kits" that form a starting point for a hobbyist to build what's known as a "biofilter." The really unfortunate thing is that the stores will never tell you this because it kills sales and even for the ambitious beginner like you who has found TFF, its quite an arcane thing to be told.

The "biofilter" is one of the best bits of technology the hobby has had going for it for many decades, long before it was even quite understood fully what it was doing. What happens is that we make sure we have the right sorts of "biomedia" in the filter, such as sponges or ceramic shapes or a few other types of things and then we *grow* two different specific species of bacteria in the filter.

The first species eats ammonia(NH3) and produces nitrite(NO2) as a result. The second species eats nitrite(NO2) and produces nitrate(NO3) as a result. Ammonia and nitrite(NO2) are both deadly to fish in different ways and we want our tank systems to keep those levels so small that our water test kits will measure the concentration as being zero parts per million (ppm). Nitrate(NO3) is much less deadly and can be removed in the weekly water change that is at the heart of good tank maintenance.

You are now in what we call a "Fish-In Cycling Situation" and in our Beginners Resource Center we've outlined what you should do in our fish-in cycling article. Have a read of that and also read the article about the Nitrogen Cycle and just for further reference, the one about what we call a "Fishless Cycle." You're going to need a good liquid-reagent based test kit. Many of us like and use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit, but there are others too, both better and worse. You're going to need to learn how to do water changes with good technique and to put that in practice.

Hey! Its all going to be fun! I know, I'm a dad sharing a tank with a son too, lol.
~~waterdrop~~

 

[Waz]

Thanks for the replies....
I thought I "cycled" the tank as per the salesguys instructions...he did say a week but I left it almost 2 weeks before I added any fish. I added the necessary "tapwater safe" drops and "filter start" drops as required. The water in the tank went very cloudy and then over a few days, cleared quite considerably.

I won't add any more fish for a couple of months then and let the current fish "cycle the tank". I have been removing about 10-15% of the water weekly and replacing it whilst adding a drop or so of the "tapwater safe". As the tank was sold as a kit, I think the filter (Interpet PF1) is a basic model and I'm sure will take time to build up the friendly bacteria. I do plan to replace this at some point.
Question - when replacing filters, is it OK to leave the fish in the tank? I gather the whole "friendly bacteria" process will start again.

 

[ian]

this programme is good for stocking your tank.

http/aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor.php

You wait, you'll want a bigger tank soon!, i know, i'm also one of those Dads that got into fish keeping after coming back to fish when i bought my sone his first tank.

If your're replacing the filter, then the new one should be in situ for at least 2 weeks.

 

[waterdrop]

Thanks for the replies....
I thought I "cycled" the tank as per the salesguys instructions...he did say a week but I left it almost 2 weeks before I added any fish. I added the necessary "tapwater safe" drops and "filter start" drops as required. The water in the tank went very cloudy and then over a few days, cleared quite considerably.

I won't add any more fish for a couple of months then and let the current fish "cycle the tank". I have been removing about 10-15% of the water weekly and replacing it whilst adding a drop or so of the "tapwater safe". As the tank was sold as a kit, I think the filter (Interpet PF1) is a basic model and I'm sure will take time to build up the friendly bacteria. I do plan to replace this at some point.
Question - when replacing filters, is it OK to leave the fish in the tank? I gather the whole "friendly bacteria" process will start again.

No, we see this problem multiple times per week. The only way to know whether/when your tank has cycled will be to test and to gain an understanding of what you're looking for in the testing. Products like filter start (what we call bottled bacteria products) mostly exist to lighten your wallet. The cloudy water was what we call a "bacterial bloom" caused by the sudden multiplication of millions of "heterotrophic" bacteria (completely different from the "autotrophs" we want in the filter) and for it to clear is normal and has nothing to do with the cycle. Bacterial blooms are seen in tanks that are being fishless cycled, fish-in cycled or sometimes in mature tanks for various reasons, they don't tell you anything really about your biofilter.

If the day comes when you decide to change filters, the now-mature media in the old filter can be worked in to the new filter (with difficulty sometimes) and, if all goes right, will still support that same fish population it has been supporting. The size of the two bacterial colonies grows to match the size of the bioload (the number of fish and other tank creatures.)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Waz]

Thanks all for the replies...the link was excellent.
Every fish I picked the site tells me "the <fish> will outgrow the tank" but it was ok for the Tetras. Do you recommend any fish for a 48Litre tank which are similiar to the Tetras ?


Cheers

p.s Its been less than a month and I'm tempted to go out next week and get me a new massive tank for Xmas !!!

 

[waterdrop]

Gosh, I keep sounding like the bad guy in my posts. I can't comment on the particular link but many of our very experienced members advise being cautious when using the various stocking calculator web sites. They often make you think you can stock much more than would really be advisable. The other comment I'll make is that 12 neons and several guppies in a 12G/45L is getting close enough to fully stocked that the fry that will come from the guppies (if not all male) could rapidly cause an overstocking situation.

Perhaps some other members will also advise here.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

A dozen neons and 3 guppies is a fairly full load for a 45 litre tank. Once the tank is cycled, you might be able to squeeze in a few more small fish but not many. It is time to start thinking about that Christmas present if you want to get serious about many more fish. By valentines day you might be able to complete a fishless cycle on it and start stocking in earnest. I find that I always have my best results when I keep my fish stocking levels low. Some of my fish refuse to cooperate and just breed until they need a shoehorn to get into their own tank, but those tanks really do not do as well as the others in the long run.

 

[yhbae]

Gosh, I keep sounding like the bad guy in my posts. I can't comment on the particular link but many of our very experienced members advise being cautious when using the various stocking calculator web sites. They often make you think you can stock much more than would really be advisable. The other comment I'll make is that 12 neons and several guppies in a 12G/45L is getting close enough to fully stocked that the fry that will come from the guppies (if not all male) could rapidly cause an overstocking situation.

Perhaps some other members will also advise here.

~~waterdrop~~

I would also give the very same the cautious advices as yours to novice keepers about most stocking calculators so don't feel bad about it. I believe this one is a bit different though and I'm not saying this just because I created it.... I knew this challenge before I started writing a single line of aqadvisor.com and it would take months if not years to get it to the level where it would become useful. So far, I spent about 5 months developing this site.

This one treats all species as individuals with its own set of attributes. No single general rule for stocking here. If advices it gives turns out to be wrong for any particular species, I can fix it. I have been doing that for the past 3 months based on user feedback.

And I just tried the combo above, 12g with 12 neons and 3 guppies. It does give you 100% stocking level.

Remember, if you report it, I will try to fix it.

 

[waterdrop]

OK, great! Thanks for the info. Had no idea that one was by one of our members. WD

 

[aly_starh]

OK well, members have given you advice.

hmmm, i would have never thought 12 Tetras were suitable in a tank of thats size, bbut you learn something new everyday

I personally think a tank like that will look amazing as a colourful betta sorority of about 5. Personal opinion, but i garuntee you, it would look great. Also they dont produce much waste and each individual betta will have its own personality, which i think your son would love!