Help with cloud minnows

OP
OP
tomdaven

tomdaven

New Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2022
Messages
40
Reaction score
7
Location
UK
I had similar documented on here over a year ago with my WCMMs. All but one fish in a tank of approx 25 died and that was a hybrid Japanese Ricefish-Daisys Ricefish which may have been tougher than the rest who were almost certainly inbred to a degree.
I believe my tanks problems were a perfect storm of a psycho guppy biting other fish and me forgetting to use my “baffle container” when refilling tank via python which meant sand was blasted everywhere creating murky water. I think bacteria from the murky water infected the open wounds of a lot of fish and spread like wildfire through the tank taking over a month to finish them off despite daily huge water changes and salt treatment.
I saw bite marks on corpses and actually pictured him biting a WCMM while trying to photograph a diseased fish to show the pic on here.
I nearly threw the towel in again on fishkeeping and if that one Ricefish hybrid hadn’t survived I may well have.

Best of luck.
Thanks,
i've only got WCMM but the sand theory makes a lot of sense. Thinking of dark gravel next time instead, might reduce this issue.
 

Colin_T

Fish Guru
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
33,009
Reaction score
16,562
Location
Perth, WA
Unfortunately i've lost another two over night, just one left now. To be fair i've watched the last one eat yesterday and this morning, he seems ok.
Obviously the tank is not ok to add other fish at this time and i have no way of knowing when it is ready as the water tests are still fine.

I think the best option is to start again with a proper fishless cycle this time.

Should i clean everything in the tank including the filter or are any of them worth keeping for the bacteria?

thanks again
It sounds like poisoning of some sort. The fish swim around, eat and then die overnight with no physical signs. I have seen similar things in tetras but not white clouds. That doesn't mean it can't happen, just it's not something I have seen in them.

It can be caused by something that got into the tank when you were setting it up. It might be from a major difference in water chemistry between the shop tank and yours. A contributing factor might be when the fish came into the shop and when you got them. If you got the fish on the same day the shop got them, it would mean the fish undergo way more stress, and then anything else that stresses them can push them over the edge.

At this stage probably just leave the tank and see if the remaining fish dies. If it does, then wash the tank and everything out, and set it back up.

Make sure you use clean buckets that have not been used for anything except clean water.
Make sure you don't have any oil, grease, cream, moisturiser, hand sanitiser residue, or anything else on your skin that might come off in water.
 
OP
OP
tomdaven

tomdaven

New Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2022
Messages
40
Reaction score
7
Location
UK
It sounds like poisoning of some sort. The fish swim around, eat and then die overnight with no physical signs. I have seen similar things in tetras but not white clouds. That doesn't mean it can't happen, just it's not something I have seen in them.

It can be caused by something that got into the tank when you were setting it up. It might be from a major difference in water chemistry between the shop tank and yours. A contributing factor might be when the fish came into the shop and when you got them. If you got the fish on the same day the shop got them, it would mean the fish undergo way more stress, and then anything else that stresses them can push them over the edge.

At this stage probably just leave the tank and see if the remaining fish dies. If it does, then wash the tank and everything out, and set it back up.

Make sure you use clean buckets that have not been used for anything except clean water.
Make sure you don't have any oil, grease, cream, moisturiser, hand sanitiser residue, or anything else on your skin that might come off in water.
Thanks again, really appreciate your advice.
 

Byron

Fish Guru
Tank of the Month!
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
17,682
Reaction score
9,123
Location
CA
Read through this thread, and most of the data points to toxic fungus from the wood. The symptoms described are certainly what I saw from this.

Removing the wood OK, but I would also throw out all filter media and use new when you start the tank again. A new substrate might be advisable too. A darker sand would be your best option, as it will not limit fish like gravel does, and in a small tank, this is significant. You are in the UK, so look at getting a bag of Argos Play Sand (@Essjay is this the correct brand?), very inexpensive and safe. Floating plants like Water Sprite really make a different to small fish too.

I have twice had to deal with toxic wood, both times bought from a very reputable independent fish store. The Malaysian Driftwood which comes in chunks and is very dark brown has been safe for me over 30 years, and I have never heard of toxic issues with this wood. I have a lot of it in my tanks. The branchy light-coloured wood is especially dangerous for fungus so I would avoid that.

And the pH had nothing to do with this. But it would help to know the GH (general hardness) of your source water, as this impacts fish and will determine suitable fish going forward.
 

Essjay

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Global Moderator
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
16,972
Reaction score
12,665
Location
Teesside, UK
Argos play sand is the one used by many of our members, though I haven't used it myself.
 
OP
OP
tomdaven

tomdaven

New Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2022
Messages
40
Reaction score
7
Location
UK
Read through this thread, and most of the data points to toxic fungus from the wood. The symptoms described are certainly what I saw from this.

Removing the wood OK, but I would also throw out all filter media and use new when you start the tank again. A new substrate might be advisable too. A darker sand would be your best option, as it will not limit fish like gravel does, and in a small tank, this is significant. You are in the UK, so look at getting a bag of Argos Play Sand (@Essjay is this the correct brand?), very inexpensive and safe. Floating plants like Water Sprite really make a different to small fish too.

I have twice had to deal with toxic wood, both times bought from a very reputable independent fish store. The Malaysian Driftwood which comes in chunks and is very dark brown has been safe for me over 30 years, and I have never heard of toxic issues with this wood. I have a lot of it in my tanks. The branchy light-coloured wood is especially dangerous for fungus so I would avoid that.

And the pH had nothing to do with this. But it would help to know the GH (general hardness) of your source water, as this impacts fish and will determine suitable fish going forward.
Thanks for your advice, i've certainly learnt a lot these past weeks!
The wood is in my garden now, wish i never got it.
Will have a look at the Water Sprite and get a test for the GH. Thanks
 

itiwhetu

Fish Maniac
Pet of the Month!
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
7,769
Reaction score
5,570
Location
Hokitika, New Zealand
Just another plant loving, acid loving fish being kept outside of its comfort zone. A case of not giving the fish what they required to survive.
 
OP
OP
tomdaven

tomdaven

New Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2022
Messages
40
Reaction score
7
Location
UK
Just another plant loving, acid loving fish being kept outside of its comfort zone. A case of not giving the fish what they required to survive.

Your right that i didn't have enough plants, i've bought another 6 today.

The problem is many of the websites which describe the ideal conditions for the WCMM, contradict each other, so its tricky for a total beginner to know what to do.
 

Byron

Fish Guru
Tank of the Month!
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
17,682
Reaction score
9,123
Location
CA
The problem is many of the websites which describe the ideal conditions for the WCMM, contradict each other, so its tricky for a total beginner to know what to do.

The number of times we have to deal with this must now be in the hundreds. We must always keep in mind that any information on the internet is not for that reason alone necessarily reliable. Anyone can post videos and set up sites, while having not the slightest idea of the subject. Know the source--meaning, the individual providing the information or running the site--and make sure they have knowledge which is not just experience but actual learned knowledge.
 

Most reactions

trending

Members online

Top