Help with cloud minnows

tomdaven

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Hi,
First tank setup ever, got a 54L tank with 8 white cloud minnows, substrate (well rinsed), sponge filter, one piece of driftwood and two fake plants. Temperature is roughly 17/18 degrees centigrade.
The tank has been running for two weeks now and on Wednesday i tested the water again, Ammonia was zero, Nitrite was zero, Nitrate was zero, and PH was 7.6. That night i noticed one of the fish was moving a bit slow and going towards the surface but only for a short while before he returned to the group. In the morning he was dead.
Same thing happened the following day, another fish moving slowly and dead this morning.

Any advice would be appreciated.
 
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tomdaven

tomdaven

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I have always thought of these fish as acid loving, and will struggle in an Alkaline tank
Hadn't considered that, alot of websites basically say they are very hardy and fine in all water.
Thanks for the help will look at changing the PH.
 
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tomdaven

tomdaven

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I have always thought of these fish as acid loving, and will struggle in an Alkaline tank
Having looked again at what i had read, looks like you are spot on, many thanks
 

Slaphppy7

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Slaphppy7

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First, your temp is roughly 63F, which is too cold....bring the temp up to around 72F (22C).

Two weeks is generally not long enough for a tank to cycle, unless you use seeded media from an established tank

What kind of test kit are you using? What kind of water conditioner?
 

Lajos_Detari

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I agree with @Slaphppy7.
First check your ammonia and nitrite, and ensure that your test kits are accurate and you are using water conditioner.

Other possibilities are diseases.
Some diseases like bacteria can kill fast but in your cold water(17/18degC), probably they are less active.

Parasite like the gill flukes can also kill fast when they are in high numbers in your tank.
For gill flukes, you will see symptoms of fish scratching quite frequently and at the terminal/last stage, they will breathe fast due to damage to their gills.
 
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tomdaven

tomdaven

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First, your temp is roughly 63F, which is too cold....bring the temp up to around 72F (22C).

Two weeks is generally not long enough for a tank to cycle, unless you use seeded media from an established tank

What kind of test kit are you using? What kind of water conditioner?
Thanks, i've turned the heater on to raise the temp.
Using the API freshwater master test kit.
Using Fluval AquaPlus Water Conditioner.
 

Slaphppy7

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Thanks, i've turned the heater on to raise the temp.
Using the API freshwater master test kit.
Using Fluval AquaPlus Water Conditioner.
Good on the test kit...and I've never heard of that conditioner before...it is "formulated with herbal extracts", according to the website...I think I'd switch to a better conditioner, such as Seachem Prime, or API Tap Water Conditioner

If you indeed are testing negative for both ammonia and nitrItes, I would suspect sick/diseased fish for the deaths

You should be registering "some" nitrAtes, if the tank is cycled, especially with no live plants

What kind of DW is in the tank?
 
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tomdaven

tomdaven

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Thanks, i've turned the heater on to raise the temp.
Using the API freshwater master test kit.
Using Fluval AquaPlus Water Conditioner.
I agree with @Slaphppy7.
First check your ammonia and nitrite, and ensure that your test kits are accurate and you are using water conditioner.

Other possibilities are diseases.
Some diseases like bacteria can kill fast but in your cold water(17/18degC), probably they are less active.

Parasite like the gill flukes can also kill fast when they are in high numbers in your tank.
For gill flukes, you will see symptoms of fish scratching quite frequently and at the terminal/last stage, they will breathe fast due to damage to their gills.
Thanks,
Ammonia and Nitrite both zero with API test kit and NTLabs test kit. Using Fluval water conditioner.
Will take water sample to shop tomorrow and get them to test it.
Appreciate your help.
 
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tomdaven

tomdaven

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Good on the test kit...and I've never heard of that conditioner before...it is "formulated with herbal extracts", according to the website...I think I'd switch to a better conditioner, such as Seachem Prime, or API Tap Water Conditioner

If you indeed are testing negative for both ammonia and nitrItes, I would suspect sick/diseased fish for the deaths

You should be registering "some" nitrAtes, if the tank is cycled, especially with no live plants

What kind of DW is in the tank?
OK, will get the other conditioner. Going to take a water sample to the shop tomorrow to get them to test it, to make sure my readings are correct.

DW is from a pet store, light coloured wood, "not tanned". I put it in boiling water when we got it.
Its currently got a lot of white fluff type material on it, which i believe is ok.
Thanks again.
 

Slaphppy7

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OK, will get the other conditioner. Going to take a water sample to the shop tomorrow to get them to test it, to make sure my readings are correct.

DW is from a pet store, light coloured wood, "not tanned". I put it in boiling water when we got it.
Its currently got a lot of white fluff type material on it, which i believe is ok.
Thanks again.
Most times the "driftwood snot" is harmless, but there are cases when it is toxic...if it was sold at a fish store, it *should* be OK

Are the fish old enough to sex yet? If there is a significant amount of males over females, there could be undue stress on the females...stress leads to issues

Also, these fish appreciate LOTS of cover...2 artificial plants may not be enough...have you considered live plants?
 

itiwhetu

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Thanks, i've turned the heater on to raise the temp.
Using the API freshwater master test kit.
Using Fluval AquaPlus Water Conditioner.
White clouds are not tropical fish, and you need to be careful how warm the tank is and for how long term. My White clouds spend their time in a pond where the temperature fluctuates between 10-18 degrees C
 
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tomdaven

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White clouds are not tropical fish, and you need to be careful how warm the tank is and for how long term. My White clouds spend their time in a pond where the temperature fluctuates between 10-18 degrees C
Thanks, its difficult to know exactly what temperature to aim for. In the UK its currently winter and the room the tank is in its only about 12 degrees centigrade most of the time. Recently i had been turning the tank heater on at night and off during the day, set to 20 degrees at night.
I looked at five different websites and their guidance varies from 15 up to 20 degrees.
 

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