Help, Nitrate Problems - Tta, Eagles, Flutter?

[Sophie]

You guys who are reading this and know me, you know I am well aware of the nitrogen cycle.
I have been watching my Clown Loaches over the course of the past few months, had a couple of new additions to the group etc.
I started to notice the reddening of the gills, almost shiny metallic - bare in mind I only started looking closely after the new additions so I am not totally sure if they were red before or red after the new additions (with Immi, it's hard to recollect anything nowadays).
There's no ammonia/nitrite. That rules that out.
They're not gasping at the surface or having rapid gill movements but I did notice the odd 'flicking' motions.

This led me to believe it was flukes which were infecting the other fish.
Does the fluke parasite migrate to other hosts?
I have treated with Flubendazole for two weeks now. Large water change, add appropriate dosage, 7 days later, large water change (today) and add another dose.
I understand 'wormers' can take a long time to be effective.

The gills are still red, so I started thinking about chlorine and how it affects their gills.
When I fill the tank, I use a python from the shower into the tank - I add Prime into the stream as it's filling.
What effect does chlorine have on fish? Could this be a possible reason for the redness?
 
Now, I should've done this a long time ago but I never bothered as I've always done regular water changes and not had any problems.
I tested the nitrate AFTER I did the 50% water change.
The reading came out at around 100ppm..
I then tested the tap water and guess what? It came out at around 60/80ppm.
I immediately rang the water company who said they will test it and get back to me tomorrow.
What long term effects does high nitrate have on fish? Could this cause the red gills after about a years exposure to it?
Will it ever heal if I get the nitrates down to 10/20ppm?
What possible solutions are there? RO/HMA? Chemical media in the filtration?
 
I read on a couple of other forums and such that younger Clowns exhibit the redder gills, because they're just young.
Are the red gills normal in younger Clowns? Is this just total bull?
 
Obviously the high nitrate is a problem that needs sorting ASAP but it would be a nice coincidence if it was the reason for the red gills as it would solve two problems by fixing the nitrate.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Ninjouzata]

Obviously not anywhere near as experienced as you or the others you are looking for answers from.
I have no idea the answers to your questions but on another forum I know people use a plant I think it is..called pothos in their messy tanks to keep nitrates down. Maybe this would be something to try?

 

[daizeUK]

The gills are still red, so I started thinking about chlorine and how it affects their gills.
When I fill the tank, I use a python from the shower into the tank - I add Prime into the stream as it's filling.
What effect does chlorine have on fish? Could this be a possible reason for the redness?

Yes chlorine can burn fishes gills, however Prime acts instantly so I doubt this is your reason.

 

[Sophie]

The gills are still red, so I started thinking about chlorine and how it affects their gills.When I fill the tank, I use a python from the shower into the tank - I add Prime into the stream as it's filling.What effect does chlorine have on fish? Could this be a possible reason for the redness?

Yes chlorine can burn fishes gills, however Prime acts instantly so I doubt this is your reason.

Might sound totally stupid but what about all the water you're adding doesn't mix with Prime straight away? Surely there's a few minutes of exposure before they both mix?
How does Prime work?
I've totally never thought about it.
I know they bond together etc but how fast does it mix with the whole tank?

 

[daizeUK]

It acts fast enough that you need not worry about it. The amount of time to mix in the tank certainly wouldn't cause gill reddening.

 

[Sophie]

It acts fast enough that you need not worry about it. The amount of time to mix in the tank certainly wouldn't cause gill reddening.

Ok thanks sweet, that's fab!

I've taken a video too, and some pictures. Will upload as soon as I can.
Very late here.
I'll also add I'm sat here watching them closely (they're hungry so game for me to do anything with them for food) and in different positions you cannot see the red at all. They're got a shimmery yellow glitter almost which is the same as their skin colour..

Not sure if I'm making sense ha ha.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

For a start, nitrate tests are pretty inaccurate. In the states the allowable limit of nitrates in tap water is 10 mg 0o2-N/l. On an API kit this this is roughly 44 ppm.
 
Nitrate basically affects fish the same way nitrite does, it blocks the blood from holding oxygen. But because the NO3 is bigger than NO2, its does not readily pass through the gills. This is why it takes much higher levels of nitrate in the water to be detrimental to fish. The gills are not being affected by the nitrite or nitrate, it is the hemoglobin in the blood. Fish will be gasping for air at the surface even in a well aerated tank.
 
The amount of residual chlorine in ones tap water vs dechlorinator is not an issue. Before it can do any harm it will be neutralized.

 

[Sophie]

For a start, nitrate tests are pretty inaccurate. In the states the allowable limit of nitrates in tap water is 10 mg 0o2-N/l. On an API kit this this is roughly 44 ppm.
 
Nitrate basically affects fish the same way nitrite does, it blocks the blood from holding oxygen. But because the NO3 is bigger than NO2, its does not readily pass through the gills. This is why it takes much higher levels of nitrate in the water to be detrimental to fish. The gills are not being affected by the nitrite or nitrate, it is the hemoglobin in the blood. Fish will be gasping for air at the surface even in a well aerated tank.
 
The amount of residual chlorine in ones tap water vs dechlorinator is not an issue. Before it can do any harm it will be neutralized.

 
So it's not the nitrate as all the fish are behaving normally. Eating. Sleeping. Pooping. Going about their everyday lives. No rapid gill movements as I mentioned above..

Just uploading pictures and video now.

 

[the_lock_man]

THe legal maximum nitrate level in tapwater in the UK is 50ppm, so if you genuinely do have that much, then start making noises at Thames Water. But as TTA says, hobbyist nitrate tests aren't hugely accurate.

 

[Sophie]

THe legal maximum nitrate level in tapwater in the UK is 50ppm, so if you genuinely do have that much, then start making noises at Thames Water. But as TTA says, hobbyist nitrate tests aren't hugely accurate.

 
As I said, I am expecting a phone call today from them with their results. I'm on Wessex Water here, not Thames 50ppm.. I'll keep that in mind. I mean, the vial wasn't orange, it was definitely red but not as dark red to go over the 100ppm limit.

 

[Sophie]

Above: This looks 'normal' here.
Below: This doesn't, I guess? Looks better here than on some. Some have it, some don't.. Sometimes you cannot notice. Am I going mad?

 
Below: Again, normal behaviour.. See the metallic sheen?
 

 
Below: See the top one is quite 'raw'. Bottom one looks 'normal'?
 

 
Below: Best picture I got, reddish glow with glittery gold on top. This specimen is one of the new additions.
 

 
Video: You can see in this one, my sickly little runt, bless him. After the flubendazole he'll be treated with an internal wormer as he's got the wasting look. The LFS was giving him away free because of the way he was.. He'd of been PTS otherwise. He's the most confident out of the whole group though, the alpha is at least 6x the size and is the most timid! Oh and the rescue Danio, same situation just from a family member who needed rid. He chases the runt around and vice versa.. I think he believes himself a Clown. I should rehome him but I am attached.. But do not want anymore Danios to give him a shoal!
 
 
http/s1118.photobucket.com/user/SofieSTARR/media/MOV_0860.mp4.html

Click above!
 
 
 
Hope this helps guys. They're my favourites and I hope to have them another 20 years or more from now!

With the Nitrate problem, would it be the most sustainable idea in the long run if I invested in RO/HMA? Introduce the water slowly to them. Either that or shelling out a lot of money on media for it which I assume will need to be changed often?

I cannot heavily plant as they'll just wreck them as they have in the past. I have Giant Duckweed as a floating weed to help soak up some anyway. Maybe moss? Fast growing will help reduce somewhat? For a temporary measure that is.

Sorry for going on and on.. and on.

Apologies for the phone vibrating on the video, scared me silly aha!

And the dropping the phone at the end is pretty abrupt aha.

 

[Sophie]

http/www.scribd.com/doc/209570863/Zone-114-Salisbury
 

This is the link for the water test results from Wessex Water.
 

 

[Sophie]

I did just think I might've offended some people by not mentioning them in the title, it was literally the first three that came to mind, it wasn't preference!

 

[daizeUK]

We all bow down before the greatness that is TTA, Eagles & Flutter!

I wonder if your best bet at this point might be to post those pictures in the Clown Loach forum (or wherever they belong) to see if someone familiar with that species can answer your last question?

 

[Sophie]

We all bow down before the greatness that is TTA, Eagles & Flutter!

I wonder if your best bet at this point might be to post those pictures in the Clown Loach forum (or wherever they belong) to see if someone familiar with that species can answer your last question?

 
I'm a member of loaches.com.
I'll give them a forum post and see.
The only problem is, it can be pretty dead but hey, fingers crossed!