Help! Betta About To Die ...

[Galanta]

Hi! My friend and I each got our first bettas not more than 2 months ago. Mine is a blue/purple fantail and is doing great. He is very active; intensly curious about everything going on in the room; is eating, is not constipated, is buildling bubble nests and his fins are in beautiful condition.
I just took my friends Crowntail Betta from her 4 days ago and it is in horrible condition. He looks emancipated, but won't eat. He has lost nearly all his color. He would just sit at the bottom of the tank with clamped fins and not move. When he floats next to the glass you can literally tap right at his head and there is no reaction whatsoever.
I looked at a lot of fish illness photos and he definitely does not have dropsy or ick. He has a lot of broken/torn fins and some of the very tips are a little black, but I don't think that any fin rot could be advanced enough to explain his catatonic condition. He remains upright and when he swims, he swims normally.
When I first got my hands on him, he was in 69 degree distilled water and completely motionless. I first just moved the vase into a warmer spot, which slowly raised the temperature to about 73 degrees. Then I scooped him into a little travel container and brought him to where I have my Betta, let the container float in the new "hospital bowl" to warm up even more and he has now been in 76-79 degree water for the last 3 days. At first I kept him in distilled water as I was afraid a complete change of water might shock him, but then on recommendation of a local petstore I switched him to the kind of water i have my Betta in, which is 80% treated water and 20% distilled (because we have hard water). There was no change in him at all. Then yesterday I bought aquarium salt and changed his water. I used the same kind of water he has been in for the last 48 hours, but added a teaspoon of salt to a gallon of water. After about half an hour in the new water he changed from sitting at the bottom to floating more closer to the surface. Before he would not come up for air, but now he occasionally gulps for air. Every few hours he will move a little bit.
Through all this though he won't eat. I can throw a pellet right in front of him and he does not react. At one point he was swimming from one side of the bowl to the other and I took advantage of him being more active and threw a betta bite to him. He actually snapped at it 2-3 times, but seemed not to be able to get his mouth around it or it was too "crunchy". I pre-soaked some of the smallest pellets I could pick out and tried everything including holding them speared on a toothpick right up to his mouth, but after an hour of various coaxing I gave up.He is no longer reacting to any food (Note: I am not leaving the uneaten food in the bowl, but just keep trying and fishing it back out). Today i tried tempting him with live blood worms. I held one right in front of his mouth and every time the worm would wiggle,he would turn and swim away. While he was active and swimming I threw a betta bite to him. He lunged for it and snapped at it once, but could not get it in his mouth and instantly lost interest. After that he again stopped reacting to any food or anything going on around him.
He has not eaten in at least 5 days, probably more. He looks all sunken in and near to death and I am worried that he won't make it.
Does anybody know:
a) What exactly might be wrong with him and what kind of treatment I should try?
b) Any tips on how to get a betta to eat when he has lost his appetite?
I'm sorry that this post got a little long, but I am trying to convey the full picture. I have spent a couple of hours on various websites trying to "diagnose" what the exact problem is and how to proceed, but have not been able to figure it out. ANY help would be very appreciated! Thank you!

 

[Hawkins]

Hi,

I just read the first half of your post, and noticed you mention using Aquarium Salt ?

What do you mean by this, actual aquarium salt or Epsom salts?

Welcome to the forum

 

[Curiosity101]

I've got a feeling his long stint in distilled water may have caused some problems. Apart from the fact it had no naturally occurring elements in it, and therefore he may have developed a deficiency, there is also the fact it had a 0 KH value, meaning that as the fish produces waste the pH will plummet (Maybe even past pH6)
How often was your friend doing water changes?

Second to that with the temperature he was living at, I'm pretty sure it shouldn't cause lasting damage, but it would have meant for the time he was in your friends care that he wont have eaten as much as he probably should. And so the minerals and such that were missing from the water would not have been supplemented in his food.

Sounds like you're doing the best you can, and as hawkins said did you mean Salt in the sense of API Aquarium Salt?
Only thing I've ever read about trying to get a fish to eat is to soak the food in garlic before you give it to them. Get a clove or two, crush it up and mix it with some water, then add a pellet. Once it's soaked up some of the liquid pop it in the tank and see if you get a reaction.

 

[Galanta]

Thank you! Yes, I mean API aquarium salt for freshwater fish. I am quite sure that he suffered from the distilled water, cold temperature and infrequent water changes, but should he not start recovering after 4 days? He is NOT getting better and now has started slightly tilting and then yanking himself upright again. I can't even tell you how skinny he is. I don't think he is even half the width of mine, who is rather slender to begin with. I will give the garlic thing a try. Any other idea? Could he have some internal parasites or something? Is there some "all purpose" antibiotic or something? I really don't know if he will even last until tomorrow morning. Thanks again for answering!

 

[Curiosity101]

I don't know what sort of long term damage could have been caused, if any. I wouldn't want to speculate what 'might' be wrong with him as I don't know enough and wouldn't want to cause any additional damage. At the mo if you're keeping his water warm and clean then that's the best you can do really.
Although I don't really think the salt should be necessary if your water is as hard as you say it is.
Just persist with trying to get him to eat until someone a bit more knowledgeable can help.

 

[tibby25731]

Personally, with the torn fins etc I would add a medicine - if not sure what it is, then Interpet Anti Internal Bacteria works for most things, finrot included. What size vase is he in? It's gonna be hard to look after him in there, do you have anything bigger you could pop him in? I know you are heating the water, but is it filtered? If not, then you need to be doing water changes every 2 days to keep the water clean enough.
Good luck, keep us updated

 

[Platygirl11]

Wait just a minute there! Do not medicate unless you are sure of what illness our fish has! Some medications will harm your fish! I would post in the emergency section, they may be able to help you.

 

[Curiosity101]

Wait just a minute there! Do not medicate unless you are sure of what illness our fish has! Some medications will harm your fish! I would post in the emergency section, they may be able to help you.

^^ Agreed, that's exactly what I said. At the very most I would continue with the salt as this makes it less likely that the tears will get infected. But I WOULD NOT, actually medicate the fish until you have a proper diagnosis.

It's a good point PlatyGirl made, post in the Tropical Emergencies section aswell. The people over there really know their stuff but may miss this topic in the Betta section.

 

[Galanta]

Thank you so much for all your support! I actually got him to eat 3 blood worms, I am completely psyched! He was in a 2 gal vase before, but for the last 4 days he's been in a 3/4 gallon bubble bowl and has been getting daily water changes. The two gallon vase is tall and cylindrical, so not very good access to the fish and my constant attempts to get him to eat were gonna foul up the water anyways. As soon as he is a bit better, he will move back into something bigger. (Note: I premix a bunch of water at the same time and have 3 gallon jugs just sitting in the same room, so that even though I am doing very frequent water changes, the water is at least as "identical" as possible)
Anyways, earlier tonight he took another turn for the worse and he was literally just floating on top up against the glass and his gills did not move AT ALL. I thought he was dead and was just gonna tip over to his side any minute, but then when I stuck a pen into the water next to him he started swimming again. I had left some pellets floating in the bowl after all in hopes he might eat while I was gone and so went to do another water change as I was concerned about the water.
I scooped him up into one of these little containers the betta fish come in, when you get them at the pet store and he got amazingly agitated and was trying to get out. I decided to keep him in the little container and try to feed him there, since he was more alert and more confined, so I would be able to aim the food closer to him and it would not just sink out of sight. I first tried the blood worms. He would not eat them, but i noticed that his eyes would move sometimes when he caught one of their wiggles from the corner of his eyes. One time he actually turned and swam towards one and bit at it, but did not eat it.
I then had the idea that, if he was having such a hard time with the food (he kept randomly biting at it, but not getting it into his mouth), maybe I should try a pea since this is about the softest thing i could give him and they can be minced into tiny pieces. I speared little pieces on a tooth pick and kept waiving them in front of his mouth. They kept falling off and sinking to the ground, but one of them started sinking right in front of him and suddenly he grabbed it, spat it back out (oh no!!) but then lunged for it and ate it. I was excited and tried more pieces, but no response. Then I remembered Curiosity101's mention of garlic, found some and just squished a piece, so I got juice on my fingers and then picked up little pieces of the pea and just rolled them between my fingers.
Well, I offered him every single one of the garlic pea pieces, but he would not eat them. He would swim around and then stop and I would press the piece right against his lips but he would not eat. He either did not react at all or backed up. One time he got more agitated and seemed to kind of snap at the toothpick, which gave me the idea to try to get him to eat something "on accident", so I kept holding things right up to his face everywhere he tried to rest, trying to aim the piece in a way that if he snapped back, he would actually bite the food.
I felt pretty "mean" about stressing him out even more, but I figured there was not much too loose. Well, I used up all my garlic pea pieces but due to me repeatedly spearing them on the toothpick, i ended up with just a bunch of pea shreds in the bottom of the cup and no more in his stomach. The whole water started smelling like garlic though... : D He must have gotten some garlic into his system one way or another.
I then switched over to bloodworms again, which he was still ignoring, but I kept holding them so they would wriggle right in his face. One time he snapped in anger, but did not actually bite the worm. Then I made a breakthrough because I managed to maneuver the worm so that one end wiggled right into his mouth and suddenly - snap the worm was gone. I almost could see him go "oh, wow this stuff is food! I quickly offered him another one and he snapped at it and ate it and then another one. After that he lost all interest again.
I kept going at it for another 15 min probably since I felt I was "on a winning streak" and then i realized that after not eating anything for a week 3 blood worms and a bite of peas is not actually that bad! Plus his stomach is no longer just straight flat, but a little rounded.
So then I switched over to getting him to calm down again. I put fresh water into the bubble bowl and put him into the bowl (minus all the pea mess). In all his agitation he got some of his color back while in the travel container. He has now been back in the bowl for about an hour and still has better coloring and his gills are moving.
I think there is hope yet!
I will see how he does tomorrow. If I can keep him eating and he gets better, I'll just keep going at it. If he stops eating again I will look into the medications you mentioned.
Well I'm sorry if I bored anybody with my ramblings, but I thought there might be other people out there who at some point lost a fish who just would not eat anymore, so maybe they will find my "blow by blow" account helpful. Please note that I do NOT recommend stressing out sick fish like it did. I did it only because it literally seemed down to a life or death matter and either he was gonna wake up enough to decide to live or he was gonna die. And I must have been at this whole thing for 1-1.5 hours - just to get him to eat 3 measly worms...

I am still open to suggestions in case anybody has a good idea on what to do. I still don't know if he was just totally malnurished or if he is actually sick. By the way, he definitely showed distinct stress stripes for the last 48-72 hours, but I don't see them now... I really really hope he makes it. And if he does, and my friend let's him die of anything other than old age, I will need to kill her! : ) - I can't believe I spent so many hours/money/trips to the pet store trying to save an $8 fish ... LOL

 

[Galanta]

Hi! Just saw the two last posts on the medications and understood! Yes, my idea with the aquarium salt was to help on the fins and I will keep this up. I will not start any medications unless I have some more clear idea of what is wrong. I had NO idea about the emergency post. I will definitely try that if I don't keep seeing continued improvement.

Thanks again to everybody for their care and attention. I was just about to "write him off" when I saw all the replies coming in and they gave me hope that there was still more that could be done to save the little guy.

 

[Platygirl11]

Would you believe that I spent around $25 trying to save a $1 fish? We just get attached to them.
At a LFS near me, they sell 5 gal aquariums for around $15. Do you have a filter? It would be helpful for his health, especially if you get some filter media from your LFS to digest his ammonia. Bettas are a lot happier when they have a lot of room to roam, contrary to popular belief.
I think you're on the right track with appetizing live foods. You may need to experiment with different types of food. Keep in mind that the betta may not even like the pellets he has. Some can be very picky eaters.
It's nice to see someone who is so dedicated to their fish (or a fish under their care). You should be proud of yourself.
I think at this point, that you should go to your LFS and buy lots of small samples of live foods. WHichever he eats, you should continue to feed him. The leftovers you can save as treats for your betta.
Also, try new pellets that he may eat to balance his diet.
So far he likes:
•Bloodworms (a lot!)
•Peas(Sometimes)

Maybe try different veggies as well.
Great job!

 

[tibby25731]

Glad to hear that he has eaten Hopefully you should start to see some improvement as he eats over the next few days. If not, try the meds I mentioned - this is not dangerous to bettas, I use it often as one of my rescue bettas seems very prone to fin rot - he is very pale pink, this seems to be a weakness in this colour fro what i have read! As long as you dose correctly you will be fine. I have used this for most ailments in all fo my fish, and was recommended to use this by Wilder over in the emergency section, so I know this is good advice!

 

[Curiosity101]

If he doesn't have a definitive ailment then there is no need to medicate what so ever. The salt serves as a preventative measure to hopefully avoid having to actually medicate.

I completely trust Wilder but I also trust that she wouldn't have recommended you using it if your fish weren't actually being affect by a disease/infection. (Which she will have diagnosed at the time)

Medicating for the sake of medicating (Ie. to prevent a disease or because you think something may be wrong but aren't sure what) isn't good for your bank balance or the fish.

To put a human slant on it, paracetamol is a great pain reliever. But if you took it regularly and for the sake of it then it would cause liver damage. We don't know what these medications are doing short term or long term internally... so if the fish isn't actually being affected DO NOT MEDICATE.

I understand your situation is a bit different tibby, but it still sounds like you only medicate when your betta actually develops a case of fin-rot.

 

[Galanta]

Dear Platygirl11, thank u for the acknowledgement and I am pretty proud of myself...
I will need to discuss the final arrangements for the fish with my friend. We have our fish at work, so the whole tank set up is not quite feasible. I already have a tank at home with a very aggressive African Cichlid. The way I handle the problem with my betta is that I have a huge bubble bowl that takes at least 3 gal of water. I have a large aquarium ornament that is a tree trunk with about 4-5 different entry and exit points plus two silk plants. My fish just loves swimming around and thru the tree trunk and there is enough water that after a week I don't have the slightest sign of ammonia. I realize that a tank would be the better choice, but for me it is either betta in large bowl or no betta. I think I am doing a pretty good job of making this work both for me and my fish. I don't know how this works, but I could try post a picture some time. Thanks for the advice and yes I will get "whatever it takes" to keep this guy eating ... Thanks again for your help. It's 6:00 am at my place and I better finally get to bed ...

 

[Curiosity101]

Well you really are doing a great job!
I personally wouldn't put a betta in anything below 5 gal. But at the end of the day it sounds like a nice set-up and your betta is happy and healthy, which is really all that matters!