Hayley's Cycle Log Pt 3

[snazy]

That's an awfull long time to cycle a tank.
I mean, there should be an issue, for not cycling for so long and adding fish is not a solition.
Filters not up to scratch maybe? Not enough aeration?

 

[HayzH]

its a Aqua Internal 200...

http/www.aquaessentials.co.uk/superfish-aqua-flow-200-internal-filter-p-3890.html

 

[eaglesaquarium]

That's an awfull long time to cycle a tank.
I mean, there should be an issue, for not cycling for so long and adding fish is not a solition.
Filters not up to scratch maybe? Not enough aeration?

I disagree. Adding fish IS a solution. Her tank is processing ammonia and nitrite, just not a full dose. So, she can safely add some fish to her tank. As long as she takes it slowly, she can add more fish to the tank as it goes. With a very small amount of fish, like the 5 platies mentioned earlier, the tank will be fine. She has had this problem with each tank so far, and the fish haven't suffered. There has been a minor spike as far as I know in tank 1, but none of the others, and the spike was very extremely low concentration and only lasted a day, I believe.

 

[snazy]

I disagree. Adding fish IS a solution. Her tank is processing ammonia and nitrite, just not a full dose. So, she can safely add some fish to her tank. As long as she takes it slowly, she can add more fish to the tank as it goes. With a very small amount of fish, like the 5 platies mentioned earlier, the tank will be fine. She has had this problem with each tank so far, and the fish haven't suffered. There has been a minor spike as far as I know in tank 1, but none of the others, and the spike was very extremely low concentration and only lasted a day, I believe.

You are right in a way. She can add fish, but whether she is ever going to be able to fully stock the problem tanks is a different question, because it seems something is causing it to cycle slowly. Even if she does, it may get dirty quite quick and eventually cause spikes and unstable tank.
But after being patient for so long cycling, I don't see a point to hurry. This is really a long time to cycle..
That's why I thought that the filters are not up to scratch maybe, but that's only one opinion of many.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

i understand your point, but her other tanks have taken to fish much better than the fishless cycle. This tank isn't an isolated case. We have her other tanks to consider and they responded very well after the addition of fish.


Remember that there is far more going on than we truly understand and the addition of fish adds a lot more than just ammonia.

 

[snazy]

We have her other tanks to consider and they responded very well after the addition of fish.

Well, yeah.
We can't really measure how much ammonia/nitrite a certain amount of fish in a tank produce, and it may be a lot less than the current ammonia added.
The point of fishless cycling is that you know exactly how much ammonia and nitrates the current setup can process in a certain amount of time. And also once finished, it grows enough bacteria to fully stock a tank with fish at once. Adding some fish may have a lot less ammonia/nitrite for the bacteria to deal with, and it will seemingly work like a miracle solution. Then on the other hand, I am not sure what the other tanks have as a filter/air, so the issue maybe just a weaker filter and fish can be added, just careful with with overstocking. If thats the intention, then it will be just fine I guess.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Well, that was the recommendation.

 

[snazy]

Well, that was the recommendation.

To be honest, I didn't want to add a second filter to my 30G which holds about 120litres, as it looked so nice with only the hood filter in, but when I fully stocked it, the water got dirty pretty quick and I had to do water changes and siphoning the gravel quite often. I have a second filter in and it is just perfect. The filter I started with is 800l/hr. The water flow is 6.6 times the fish tank volume an hour. In her case, filter 500litre, tank 70 litre, makes up about 7 times the water volume an hour....May cause problems. I aim to at least 10 times the water volume an hour, of course taking care of what fish and where the water flow goes.

 

[HayzH]

We have her other tanks to consider and they responded very well after the addition of fish.

Well, yeah.
We can't really measure how much ammonia/nitrite a certain amount of fish in a tank produce, and it may be a lot less than the current ammonia added.
The point of fishless cycling is that you know exactly how much ammonia and nitrates the current setup can process in a certain amount of time. And also once finished, it grows enough bacteria to fully stock a tank with fish at once. Adding some fish may have a lot less ammonia/nitrite for the bacteria to deal with, and it will seemingly work like a miracle solution. Then on the other hand, I am not sure what the other tanks have as a filter/air, so the issue maybe just a weaker filter and fish can be added, just careful with with overstocking. If thats the intention, then it will be just fine I guess.

Tank 1 has a Fluval U2 and an airstone and Tank 2 has the Aqua internal 200, Tank 3 has a Fluval 2+ with an airstone and Tank 4 Has a fluval U2.

 

[snazy]

Thanks
OK, so:
Tank 1, 66 litres,Fluval U2, 400 ltr/hr filter, which is 6 times the water volume an hour.
Tank 2, 70 litres, Aqua Internal 200, 500 ltr/hr filter, which is 7 times the water volume an hour.
Tank 3, 60 litres, Fluval 2+, 400 ltr/hr filter, which is 6.7 times the water volume an hour.
Tank 4, I could not find the volume of this tank, but filter is 400 litres an hour

I don't know your personal experience, but to be honest both my tanks have way higher water flow(the filter in my fry tank is 14 times the water volume an hour, but I feed and change the water a lot) And the initial filter in my bigger tank could not cope at 6.7 times the water volume an hour at full stock, but was perfectly fine before that. It does depend on the quality of filter/media as well I guess. Now it is flying it at 15e times the water volume an hour. I know that's a bit extreme and people will disagree. But ideally 10xhr is ok to make sure tank can be used to full potential.

But as a test I guess adding smaller amounts of ammonia for a couple of days to one of the problem tanks could show whether this is the cause. And will also give you idea whether it's ok to add the fish.

I was a bit confused with so many tanks and posts, etc.. . But I came across one of the posts that Ph has been crashing as well. If it went low enough, then this will prolong the cycle too. Some water changes may help against that as the nitrogen cycle naturally acidifies the water anyhow.

 

[BigbruiserAl]

EDIT: Flow is not the problem with your tanks hazel is your curse of the never ending cycle

 

[HayzH]

Thanks
OK, so:
Tank 1, 66 litres,Fluval U2, 400 ltr/hr filter, which is 6 times the water volume an hour.
Tank 2, 70 litres, Aqua Internal 200, 500 ltr/hr filter, which is 7 times the water volume an hour.
Tank 3, 60 litres, Fluval 2+, 400 ltr/hr filter, which is 6.7 times the water volume an hour.
Tank 4, I could not find the volume of this tank, but filter is 400 litres an hour

I don't know your personal experience, but to be honest both my tanks have way higher water flow(the filter in my fry tank is 14 times the water volume an hour, but I feed and change the water a lot) And the initial filter in my bigger tank could not cope at 6.7 times the water volume an hour at full stock, but was perfectly fine before that. It does depend on the quality of filter/media as well I guess. Now it is flying it at 15e times the water volume an hour. I know that's a bit extreme and people will disagree. But ideally 10xhr is ok to make sure tank can be used to full potential.

But as a test I guess adding smaller amounts of ammonia for a couple of days to one of the problem tanks could show whether this is the cause. And will also give you idea whether it's ok to add the fish.

I was a bit confused with so many tanks and posts, etc.. . But I came across one of the posts that Ph has been crashing as well. If it went low enough, then this will prolong the cycle too. Some water changes may help against that as the nitrogen cycle naturally acidifies the water anyhow.

Tank 4 is 60L. its a rectangular shape, but the front 2 corners have been chopped off.

EDIT: Flow is not the problem with your tanks hazel is your curse of the never ending cycle

HAZEL? who the ******* hell is Hazel?

 

[BigbruiserAl]

sorry wee to much vino that day was pob supposed to be HayzH lol

 

[HayzH]

 

[the_lock_man]

I disagree. Adding fish IS a solution. Her tank is processing ammonia and nitrite, just not a full dose. So, she can safely add some fish to her tank. As long as she takes it slowly, she can add more fish to the tank as it goes. With a very small amount of fish, like the 5 platies mentioned earlier, the tank will be fine. She has had this problem with each tank so far, and the fish haven't suffered. There has been a minor spike as far as I know in tank 1, but none of the others, and the spike was very extremely low concentration and only lasted a day, I believe.

You are right in a way. She can add fish, but whether she is ever going to be able to fully stock the problem tanks is a different question, because it seems something is causing it to cycle slowly. Even if she does, it may get dirty quite quick and eventually cause spikes and unstable tank.
But after being patient for so long cycling, I don't see a point to hurry. This is really a long time to cycle..
That's why I thought that the filters are not up to scratch maybe, but that's only one opinion of many.

A full fishless cycle gives you far more bacteria than you need for a decent stocking level. The bacteria would be sufficient for a very overstocked tank. Therefore I think that the tank will cope fine with a sensible stocking.

Hayz, I say go get some fish but perhaps not the rams straight away.