Given A Clean Tank

[joilet]

Hi Everyone

My name is James and i've been lurking for the past few days having recently been given a tank with fish.

It is a Juwel Rekford 800 (110 ltr) and came with the following fish species...

Upside Down Catfish (x2)
Angelfish (x1)
Tiger Barb (x2)
Tetra (x4)
Bala Shark (x1)

The person who gave it to me is a work colleague. I believe he and his ex-girlfriend bought it a few years ago. They're no longer together and he had lost interest in running his aquarium. A bulletin went out on out intranet - free tank to a good home. I had both coldwater and tropical fish as a youngster but my mum always maintained it! I had been wanting a tropical setup for a long time but had never really looked in to it. The opprtunity came along and i went for it. I was told the tank was absolutely filthy as in the fish were barely visible! When my colleague brought the tank round to my house he had cleaned it thoroughly and the fish were literally swimming around in a bucket. All the filters, gravel and other objects looked brand new. I didn't know about the cycling process otherwise i would have advised he left it in it's current state - minus the water. That's the situation.

Tuesday last week when the tank was dropped off i had already been out and bought declorinator. I rinsed everything as i was unsure if any cleaning fluids were still present. I was given numerous ornaments and other objects (stones, plants, driftwood). I positioned some of these and burried the airstone and tubing under the gravel. Assembled filter with heater element and connected the air pump. I filled the tank with tap water and added the appropriate declorinator amount. The temperature from my cold tap that day was around 25C so i added the fish immediately once the dust had settled.

Everything looked great. I knew the tank would take time to settle but had no idea about this cycling process. I immediately started reading up on this forum and other sites. I came to realise this wasn't the ideal situation. I'm sure you get plenty of people like me on here! Sorry. Though had i actually prepared all this myself i would have done the research before making any purchases, leading me to this realisation before even starting.

Two days later (Thursday) the water had a milky look to it. With the lights off it actually looked green. Having already done a fair bit of research at this point i decided to change 50% of the water. Friday it was still looking okay so i continued doing some research. A problem i have had with this setup is that it was extremely noisy. Both the air pump and the filter motor produced serious vibrations. It was so loud i could barely hear my TV and it was scaring my cats! I knew something was wrong with these components. I realised that the air pump was inadequate for the size of the tank. It was only rated up to 50 litres. It was also completely unbranded - probably a cheap jobbie. Also i noticed that the propella on the filter motor kept bouncing off the housing. I decided a trip to my nearest LFS was in order (Aquatic Habitat - Brockworth). I bought a Tetratec APS 150 pump and a replacement Juwel 400 powerhead. Initially i was given the wrong powerhead. I wouldn't have probably noticed but having inspected it previously i knew what to expect. Eventually the staff said there were two models of powerhead. They couldn't find the one i needed but luckily one of their display model (empty) tanks had the right powerhead. They offered me this to which i accepted. It was brand new and still guranteed as boxed one would be. I also bought a check-valve and some additional tubing so i could relocate the pump further away. Additionaly i got a water test kit as well. The only one they had was a Tetra Pond kit. Otherwise i would have got the recommended API master kit. It uses vials which should be better than the test strips that was given to me with the setup but it lacks the Nitrate test. I got home and proceeded to replace the pump and motor. Wow! What a difference its made. It's whisper quiet. I can only hear a slight hum from the motor in the filter and the pump is practically silent. Now i can't watch TV again! Furthermore the clarity of the water in the tank has improved. I can only assume the filter is working more efficiently. Next i decided to conduct my first water test. I filled the vials with the stated 5ml tank water and added the various solutions.

My testing results (mg/l):

Ammonia: 4.0
Nitrite: 0.3
pH: 8.0

I've not done too much research in to my fish yet but i presume the pH is within acceptable parameters. I think the ammonia is pretty high having read numerous other posts. Does the nitrite reading indicate a bacteria bloom? I've changed 20% of the water today. I did read on here that i should be doing daily 50% water changes. However the advice in the LFS was to only replace 20% once a week. I wasn't that impressed with their advice to be honest. I'll save this experiance for another post as this ones turning out longer than i expected! I've decided to only feed the fish every other day to avoid polluting the tank. I've also been given only what i can describe as a penis enlarger! I presume it's some kind of cleaning device. Should i be using this and how should i use it? So far i've been using a large jug to remove water in to a bucket.

All fish seem healthy enough and are quite perky. The catfish spend most of their time hidden. The shark seems happy on her own and often goes back and forth quickly across the length of the tank. Sometimes she hangs out with the Barbs. The barbs often chase each other. I've determined that they are male and female. The male tends to chase the female. The angelfish seem quite chilled but will dart around from time to time. The neons are just neons i suppose, though the smallest of the bunch seems to break away from the group every now and again. All tend to stay in their respected species' groups. I'm not seeing any aggressive behaviour between any of them. No signs of bullying or intimidation i don't think! I'm of course no expert - perhaps some are incompatible?

I appreciate this thread has turned in to a bit of story. I've probably done this for my own benefit in a journal sort of way. If anyone has made it to the end i wouldn't mind some much needed advice. I'm pretty new to all of this but i'm trying to make best of a bad start. I'm quite enjoying this new hobby so far. I like things technical and i like a bit of a challenge. I'm patient and always keen to learn. I hope some of you may be kind enough to provide your thoughts and experiance to my situation. There are many aspects i'm still not clear on!

Any advice on the following issues are truely appreciated:

Water stats
Water replacement
Correct cleaning procedures (what is this penis pump i have lol?)
Fish compatibility / limits
Misc tips

Attached is a picture of my setup. Thanks for your time!

 

[fishguy2727]

Is this a book or a question?

Summary please...

 

[eaglesaquarium]

My testing results (mg/l):

Ammonia: 4.0
Nitrite: 0.3
pH: 8.0

This is the crux of the matter: You need to do MASSIVE WATER CHANGES - remove all of the water except for enough for the fish to just swim upright. Then refill with temp matched dechlorinated water. Then, do it again! I know that it sounds like a lot of work, but 4 ppm Ammonia is DEADLY! Heck, as low as 0.25ppm will cause harm! You need to do a 90% water change, which will lower the ammonia to about 0.4ppm, and then do it again. This will lower the value to about 0.04 ppm. This might seem like overkill, but with that number of fish in the tank already, you will build up a significant amount of ammonia again rather quickly. The "good" news is that you are getting a nitrite reading, which means that you have some ammonia processing bacteria already. The bad news is that nitrite is a poison as well. Of course, that is not the worry right now with the ammonia where it is.


Don't worry about pH right now..... focus on the ammonia. That is the most relevant concern.


To control the ammonia for the future:
#1 - While doing the water changes, really clean every square inch of the substrate as much as possible while you are taking the water out (use a gravel vac) to remove as much detritus as possible - this remaining in your tank will increase the ammonia in your tank, without the fish even being there.

#2 - Stop feeding your fish for at least 3 days. They will be fine. Fish don't need food everyday like we do. The size of most fishes stomach is about the size of their eye. Limiting food put into the tank will limit the amount of ammonia the fish puts in. After the 3 days of fasting are over, feed them roughly half of what you have been feeding them. Give them only enough for them to eat it in 2 minutes. If it takes longer than that for them to eat it, you are overfeeding them.

#3 - Keep on top of the water parameters and be ready to do a water change at the drop of a hat. If either ammonia or nitrite gets to 0.25ppm do a 50% water change. If the values are higher than that - do as big a water change as necessary to lower the concentration to under 0.25ppm (obviously the lower the better).

#4 - Keep your head up. A lot of people find themselves in this same position. You can get through this - and so can the fish. You just need to be diligent in your testing and water changes. Don't overfeed - underfeed! And every time you do a water change, get as much gunk out of the bottom of the tank as possible.



And welcome to the forum!

 

[Randi]

First of all, as a general rule you shouldn't listen to the LFS. Second, do a large water change to get you ammonia levels down. You may have to do them daily until your tank is cycled. Any ammonia is toxic to fish. Finally, your 'penis enlarger' is a gravel vacuum. Place the large end in the tank and suck on the other end to start a siphon. Siphoning water into a large bucket is the easier way to do a water change.

 

[minnnt]

First of all, welcome to the foum James, you're in safe hands now!

I wouldn't totally ignore your LFS, their advice would normally be good if your tank was cycled.

Your tank is not big enough for the Angels you have (long term) and definately not big enough for the Bala Shark. These can reach 15" typically and like to be kept in shoals of at least 3 really. Also the Tiger Barbs are not generally advised to be kept with Angels due to them being a bit nippy and the Angels having long flowing fins. You will find if you increased the number of the TB's then the aggression and chasing would lessen due to it being dispersed throughout the whole group rather than just a pair. Females are more often than not deeper and fatter due to them needing to carry eggs for breeding, males will usually be bigger overall though.

Where abouts are you James? You could do with some mature filter media such as a sponge or bio rings depending on what your filter will accept. Put a wanted add in the classified section of this site. There is also a pinned thread i believe in one of the sections for members offering mature filter media. This would save you alot of work and benefit your fish no end. In the meantime you need to be doing water changes of at least 50% a day which will bring the stats down to a more reasonable level. Your pH is a bit high for the Angels really, but you can lower this at a later stage, as mentioned, this isn't really the issue here but shouldn't be over looked in the future.

If you're close to the east midlands then you would be welcome to some of my filter media.

 

[joilet]

I am totally amazed at the number of responses i have received! I honestly didn't expect so many people to take the time and effort to provide so much information. It is very much appreciated and is certainly not wasted. I listen and take on board what everyone has to say. You've educated me in such a short space of time compared with my own research which has often led to conflicting views.

This evening i have replaced 90% of the water. I literally left just enough for the fish to stay afloat! I also used the gravel pump. I've not syphoned anything before and it took a while to get a good flow going. Mouthful of water and it was emptying fast. I had to use 2 buckets to keep up with it. I mushed the bottom of the pump in to the gravel. I was amazed at how much crap was burried in there despite it being less than a week. Probably all that food i had been given them!

Water tests as follows:

Ammonia: 1.0
Nitrite <0.3 (not enough to measure i guess)
pH: 8.0

I can see the ammonia has come down. I appreciate it's still at a dangerous level. I'll complete another 90% water change tomorrow. Hopefully it won't build up too much between now and then. I don't think theres any point in testing the other parameters. I do have some pH adjuster but i presume it's pointless using it when the water is being changed so frequently.

It was a very good day weather wise in britain today. Temperatures reaching 30C. This has caused my tank to climb to 28C. I've no idea if the heater element shuts off in this situation. You would expect it to but it wouldn't suprise me if it produced heat contantly and that the setting is merely calibrated rather than it having the abilty to shut off when temp is equal or greater that the setting. The water i put back in the tank was 25C straight off the cold tap. Perhaps i should have matched it to the previous temperature but i felt the previous was too high. In the wild i would imagine fish experiance sudden changes in temperature when swimming in to shade and as the sun sets/rises.

@fishguy2727

Had you made it to the end of my story you would have noticed the summary! I didn't want to come across as ungrateful or demanding in my first post which is why i went to the effort of explaining some of the background. Plus people often enjoy having a bit of a read. The number of responses i received has proved that. Hopefully once i'm in a better situation my posts will be straight to the point and you may feel inclined to read more. Thanks anyway.

@eaglesaquarium

Some very useful information there thanks. My ammonia is still rather high. I know you'd have prefered me to do another water change immediately. Unfortunately it was rather late when i finished. Next time i'll follow your advice to the letter. Annoyingly i'm on a water meter. I'd hate to think what all this water usage is going to cost me in a few months! I'll not be feeding them for a few days now. Your post is valuable and i honestly appreciate the effort you made to provide it. Cheers.

@Randi

Whilst i was in the LFS one of the staff was talking to a dad about keeping a clownfish, or 'nemo' fish as the dad kept calling it! Typical wealthy family, kids all dressed smart. Mummy this, daddy that. Whatever the kids wanted the parents said yes. However the member of staff did seem quite knowledgeable - i'd only wish i had the opportunity to speak to him. I actually spoke to a woman there who came across as a bit unsure. She had to keep asking the manager various things. I used the gravel pump today. It was a good job i wasn't syphoning petrol as i had a mouthful of water several times as i had to keep stopping the flow!

@minnnt

Thanks for the welcome. I've only been a member for a day and already there seems to be plenty of friendly people around! I'll keep the LFS in mind - i'm sure it's staff dependent. Unfortunately it's always closed in the week when i get home from work. I guess they're busy at the weekends.

The Angels already seem quite big. I notice they sometimes push each other. They bump in to one another using their mouths. Sometimes they even look like they're kissing! The bala shark i have is probably about 2 inches at present. Apparently the person who owned the tank before had another one (male) which was 3 times the size. It died when he failed to maintain the tank. He said he had planned to breed them. I'll most likely have to surrender these fish if they're not suited then. Perhaps i can donate them to somebody local. Maybe i'll have a larger tank by then. I'll keep an eye on their sizes and decide what to do with them later. I've not seem the tiger barbs go anywhere near the angels though. I can't watch them all the time obviously but the angels tend to stay close to the surface and the barbs swim near the bottom. I did notice one of the angels had a nipped fin. I may consider getting some more barbs if you think this will help the situation. In my case the female is probably bigger than the male. She is noticably fatter - who knows she might be carrying eggs?

I'm situated in Gloucester, beginning of the south west. I've got family in the east midlands though. I know the area a little bit. I wasn't planning on making a trip up there any time soon. Well to be honest the cost of the water i'm using might actually exceed what it would cost to drive there and back! Thanks for the offer though, it's a shame you wern't a bit closer. I'll check out the wanted section definately. I need sponges for my type of filter. The annoying thing is i bet there are tons of freshwater fish keepers in the immediately area!

 

[Smells a bit fishy]

You don't need to suck on the end of the gravel vac!! Most if not all the gravel vacs have a one way valve thingy, so that water goes up the vac but doesn't come back down, unless it's after the valve then it goes into the bucket.

So the way to get the siphon started, is by pumping it up and down in the water, until water comes out the other end. A lot easier and tastier too lol.

Oh the heaters do shut off once the internal thermostat reaches the correct temp, just like central heating.

 

[This Old Spouse]

Welcome, and glad you came here.

Your stats are already looking better, but the ammonia is still dangerously high. And the nitrite reading is high as well, at only 0.3. Both these elements can be harmful to your fish. Keep doing the large water changes until you have readings of 0 on both. Then is when you should start to see the nitrate readings climb a bit.

You can put out a notice here that you're looking for mature filter media. This would solve most of your problems with water quality almost immediately! Perhaps the LFS could donate some to you? Maybe in exchange for the shark and angel fish that you need to rehome.

Do keep us posted.

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention that once you get your tank settled in, you should get your tiger barb numbers up to 8-12, and the tetras at least that many. TBs are much better behaved when there's lots of them.

 

[joilet]

I'll reply properly once i get home after work.

I went out on lunch to buy a new airstone as i managed to snap mine in half trying to disconnect the tubing. Whilst i was there i noticed a bottle of 'weekly tank cleaner'. It claims to reduce ammonia and nitrite. Do you think this is worth adding to the tank at all? I bought it anyway as it was cheap. Also are there any other products i can obtain which can potentially speed this up?

I was on another forum and was reading a thread where somebody had claimed to be able to fully cycle a new tank WITH FISH in just a few days using various products. He claimed he did this all the time. I'll try and find the link to it when i get home.

 

[BigbruiserAl]

Welcome to the forum mate
quick tip

Rule 1. Never belive everything you read on the internet, more so when people say i have done it this way for years so it must be right.

Rule 2. You will notice a few people around being cocky and unfriendly you soon figure them just ignore and enojoy the majority of us who still make misatakes but love to learn and help

One product that i would advise is called Prime (flebay is the cheapest i seen) used when you do water changes and a little goes along way to good value for money mate. Can be used in a pinch with ammonia and nitite Spikes

 

[micko]

I've also been given only what i can describe as a penis enlarger!

Could come in handy!

In all seriousness, it is a siphon to clean your tank, gravel or sand or any other kind of substrate you may have.
Seems as though your doing the right thing and trying to get all the information you can which is great, research is the key I believe.
As said by others, you are going to have to keep doing big water changes by the looks of it so your siphon, a bucket and some dechlor will be your best friends for a while.

Welcome to the forum by the way.

 

[scentless]

Hello!

I feel a bit weird saying welcome as I am new here too. It's like welcome someone into someone elses house!

I'm really pleased to see another new person who is really keen and not worried about asking questions. (I sometimes feel like a complete and utter moron with all the things I don't know!)

I'm glad to see your water quality is improving. You were super lucky to get it all for free. It'll be well worth all the initial messing about.

 

[joilet]

You don't need to suck on the end of the gravel vac!! Most if not all the gravel vacs have a one way valve thingy, so that water goes up the vac but doesn't come back down, unless it's after the valve then it goes into the bucket.

So the way to get the siphon started, is by pumping it up and down in the water, until water comes out the other end. A lot easier and tastier too lol.

Oh the heaters do shut off once the internal thermostat reaches the correct temp, just like central heating.

I did another water change today and i checked the pump for evidence of a valve. It had one but it was as useful as a fart in a jacuzzi. Just looking at it made it open. It couldn't hold any water back. I tried moving it back and fourth but it wouldn't allow enough water through to get the syphon going. Plus it seemed to annoy the fish. Looks like i'm stuck with geting a mouthful of water for a while longer! I've got a better at timing it though

Temp has risen to 28C the last couple of days. I think it's because of the high temperature we've had here recently. Also the room the tank is in is surrounded by other rooms on all corners. It gets too hot too quickly. I need to find a way of regulating the temp. I wonder if retrofitting 4 PC fans to the hood would cool it down sufficently? I could buy a thermostat to turn them on if it gets too hot.

Welcome, and glad you came here.

Your stats are already looking better, but the ammonia is still dangerously high. And the nitrite reading is high as well, at only 0.3. Both these elements can be harmful to your fish. Keep doing the large water changes until you have readings of 0 on both. Then is when you should start to see the nitrate readings climb a bit.

You can put out a notice here that you're looking for mature filter media. This would solve most of your problems with water quality almost immediately! Perhaps the LFS could donate some to you? Maybe in exchange for the shark and angel fish that you need to rehome.

Do keep us posted.

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention that once you get your tank settled in, you should get your tiger barb numbers up to 8-12, and the tetras at least that many. TBs are much better behaved when there's lots of them.

Thanks for the welcome. I didn't get a chance to come on here yesterday otherwise i would have replied sooner! I've done another water change today - will post new stats once everything has settled. I've tried to contact a member on here who lives 20 miles away. I don't think i have the ability to PM so i left a note on their profile. Fingers crossed they'll notice and get back to me. May try LFS but the one i went to last time didn't seem too willing if you know what i mean. There is a pond near me. You reckon i could scoop something out of that instead?

The tank is only 110 litre. Wouldn't 12 tiger barbs be too much or don't they require much space? I'm beginning to get attached to the angel fish and i've named the shark - sharky! That said yesterday i noticed one of the barbs go for one of the angel fish and one of them does have a split in its rear fin. More worryingly the angel fish themselves seem to fight amongst each other. Do you know if this is normal behaviour? One will often poke the other and chase it around the tank. I've no idea how long all the fish have cohabited but i think it's been a year or more. I will rehome them though just to be on the safe side.

Welcome to the forum mate
quick tip

Rule 1. Never belive everything you read on the internet, more so when people say i have done it this way for years so it must be right.

Rule 2. You will notice a few people around being cocky and unfriendly you soon figure them just ignore and enojoy the majority of us who still make misatakes but love to learn and help

One product that i would advise is called Prime (flebay is the cheapest i seen) used when you do water changes and a little goes along way to good value for money mate. Can be used in a pinch with ammonia and nitite Spikes

Cheers mate. I usually reserve judgement until i see it for myself, even then i'll remain sceptical. I've bought some weekly tank cleaner from Wilkos which claims to lower ammonia and nitrite. It was cheap so i bought it. I've just done a water change and have added the appropriate amount. Just hope adding the declorinator hasn't over done it.

I ordered some Prime. I got 500ml for £12. It claims to also lower ammonia and nitrate which my current declorinator doesn't. It costs more but i think it's more concentrated. Both the products i put in tonight ive worked out to need 0.1ml for every litre.

Could come in handy!

In all seriousness, it is a siphon to clean your tank, gravel or sand or any other kind of substrate you may have.
Seems as though your doing the right thing and trying to get all the information you can which is great, research is the key I believe.
As said by others, you are going to have to keep doing big water changes by the looks of it so your siphon, a bucket and some dechlor will be your best friends for a while.

Welcome to the forum by the way.

I've just been reading through various threads trying to build up an overall opinion. Everybody has their own way of doing things but theres enough good advice here to educate myself. I really need to work out what these water changes are costing me. My water is metered. The last time i used my pressure washer to clean my driveway, my monthly usage rate went from £11 to £18. That was 3 years ago and i'm still paying for it lol. Still it's quarter of what i was previously paying for an unmetered supply. I might ask my next door neighbour if i can use their outside tap. They've got kids so chances are they're unmetered. I've done another water change today and i'll be testing it very soon. I hope it is close to 0 now. I tested it prior to changing water tonight and the ammonia value was the same as before 48 hours ago. I also fed the fish this morning.

Hello!

I feel a bit weird saying welcome as I am new here too. It's like welcome someone into someone elses house!

I'm really pleased to see another new person who is really keen and not worried about asking questions. (I sometimes feel like a complete and utter moron with all the things I don't know!)

I'm glad to see your water quality is improving. You were super lucky to get it all for free. It'll be well worth all the initial messing about.

Gatecrash someone elses thead! Only joking. I used to frequent a lot of large forums a few years back when i didn't have much to do. I've been on some proper nazi controlled ones where you would dare post a thread in fear someone else may have asked or annouced something similar. I figured anybody enthusiastic towards fish wouldn't be that bad! I spent a while reading other threads in the hope i could find answers to my questions. I found plenty of information but it's all a bit overwhelming at first. If someone said to wee in the tank to lower the ammonia i'd probably believe them! You know that might actually have some benefit... lol. In all seriousness it's probably better to ask a stupid question than to get it wrong winging it. Definately easier said than done though i think.

I was quite lucky i think. The guy who gave it me had lost interested i think his missus about to have a baby so i think he just wanted shot of it. I offered him some cash but he didn't want it. He even brought it round my house. Just wish he hadn't cleaned the filters! I went on bay of e and saw the same tanks going for £50+ collection only. Plus i got loads of kit to go with it. The pump and powerhead were both knackered so i replaced those but i haven't really spent much so far.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

INstead of sucking on the tube, there is a much easier (and sanitary) method. Put the tube into the tank, ALL OF IT. move it around to release the air trapped inside. Once it is full of water, the next step is simple. Place your thumb over the small end of the tube, and move it into the bucket - release your thumb and voila! instant siphon. I use this method with a plain 5/8 inch tube. It works every time, "I've done it this way so it must be right". I've even got it sorted out so that I can attach a hose to it and siphon water straight into the garden!

(This method is similar to holding your thumb over the end of a straw to pick up water.)

 

[joilet]

Thats helpful to know thanks. As the valve is practically useless it should work. I'll definately give it a go next time. I'm just using two buckets. Whilst one is filling up i'm tipping the other down the drain.

Today i used a hosepipe to fill the tank. Not too sure it was a good idea. The hose hasn't been used in about a year. I left it running for a bit first to get the cobwebs out. Not too worried about the pipe itself more the nozzel. I gave it a good rinse first. Hopefully it hasn't introduced anything nasty to the water. Problem is the flow rate is too low downstairs and i need to use the bathtub upstairs. I'm still aching from 2 days ago! This time i thought i'd save some hassle and drag the hosepipe in to the lounge from the garage. It took a while to fill as again the pressure was low but i sat back and watched it fill with the nozzel balancing on the side of the tank. I preyed my cats wouldn't go near it!

So the results are in. I haven't done a water change since Sunday evening. 48 hours ago. I did test the ammonia prior to doing a 90% water change tonight.

Ammonia
BEFORE: 1.5
AFTER: 0.25

Nitrite: <0.3

Still not zero but getting near. The latest test was taken 2 hours after having added declorinator and some weekly tank cleaner i picked up. It claims to reduce these parameters. No fatalities yet which is good. I am starting to get a bit worried about the stress on the fish doing these changes. Earlier the bala shark jumped the height of the tank as it tried to get away from the gravel vac. The angel fish were also struggling to swim past various objects as the water level was just high enough. I figure at the rate the ammonia is climbing i can get away with doing a water change in another 2 days. Not the best i know but still a #41#### lot better than their previous environment. I actually think the stress is doing them more harm than good.

Any thoughts?