Getting A Bit Worried Now...

[LolaLouie]

Ok so i posted earlier saying I'd had my Angel since Monday and he still hadn't eaten.

Well i just fed some flake and pellets and he finally ate!! The thing is everything he ate he spat up after a couple of seconds. You know how they do when they eat something to big and they have to spit it out and eat again a few times before they finished it but the thing is he was doing this with small pieces of flake that even my cherry barbs eat whole.

I wish i could show a video but i don't know how to do it as on places like image shack you have to pay to put videos.

What's wrong with him, it's as if he can't swallow.

Any advice really appreciated!!

Ammonia 0

Nitrite 0

Nitrate 30 (tap=40)

pH 7.6-7.8

He's fine in every other way, swimming normally no ich, nothing inflamed absolutely fine, just this eating thing.

Any ideas?!?

 

[WILDER]

Does he look pale or darker in colour.
Being listless and lethagic.
Check his gills over do they look pale with excess mucas on them.

 

[Tolak]

What's the tank temperature?

 

[LolaLouie]

He's absolutely fine appearence wise and, Tolak, the tank temp is 26 which my other angels have been fine in.

So any ideas?

 

[WILDER]

I havent a clue then.
Being pale or darker in colour, listless and lethagic and not eating can be a sign of a bacterial infection.

 

[LolaLouie]

Once again my fish seem to have unexplained problems I guess i'll wait and see if he eats tomorrow!

Any suggestions from anyone for now though much appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[WILDER]

Garlic meant to stimulate a fish appetite, as well as boost there immune system.
Just soak flakes in the garlic juice.

 

[Tolak]

That tank temperature is a little on the cool side for angels. Cooler water decreases metabolism, which decreases appetite. I would start by raising the temperature, I keep angels at 28-30C. Just the temperature increase may stimulate the appetite, try a little live food as well, brine shrimp or blackworms. Go easy on bloodworms with angels, these can easily lead to constipation.

Many times angels, along with discus, are prone to internal protizoans. They often get by just fine with these as a normal part of their digestive floura, until a stressful event occurs, which being relocated is. This is often the cause behind angels not eating, a flake or frozen food with metronidazole, or dimetronidazole if you are in the UK, will help with this, as long as they are at least mouthing the food.

You may want to look into this post, and pm the original poster; http/www.fishforums.net/content/Tropical...ng-Metro-In-Uk/

I'll give you my usual copy & pase for how I use metro with angels, it is one of the few meds I keep on hand, having many angels this problem crops up on occasion.

Put the angel in a quar tank, I usually use a 10 gallon. Increase the temp over a day or so to 90-94F. Treat daily with 40 mg/gallon metronidazole, with 50% water changes daily. If the fish isn't eating, don't feed for the first 3 days. After 3 days, get some frozen brine shrimp. Take a portion about the size of a few match heads, and sprinkle on some metro. You have to eyeball this one, make the shrimp look kind of like a tiny powdered donut. Once it thaws, mix it in & feed. Sometimes they still don't eat for a few days, but once they start to mouth the food & spit it out, the meds seem to get in their system real good. Continue medicating the water & food for 7-10 days.

Metronidazole is sold as flagyl, het-a-mit, and a few other names I can't recall offhand, used to treat hexamita & hole in the head. They usually suggest 20mg/gallon, this often isn't enough. Metro deteriorates in 8 hours, so you could do twice daily water changes. I've done this on the weekends when I have time.

I've also added epsom salt while using metro, this helps with any constipation issues, cleans out the digestive tract. I start with 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water, increasing by 1 teaspoon daily for 2 more days to bring it up to 3 teaspoons per 10 gallons. You will have to adjust how much you use when doing water changes. You may want to give this a try.

 

[kribensis12]

^ good suggestion Tolak.

 

[WILDER]

I forget spitting food out can also be a sign of internal parasites as well as flukes.

good suggestion Tolak
I agree.

 

[WILDER]

Tolak do you agree with force feeding like its says in this article.
[URL="http/www.aquaticcommunity.com/discusfish/discus2.php"]http/www.aquaticcommunity.com/discusfish/discus2.php[/URL]

Taken from the article.
Internal parasites
A Discus can harbor internal parasites without really being ill, but in some situations the parasites will start to grow exponentially and can then pose a serious threat to your fish. Common warning signs are emaciation and white feces. It can be hard to diagnose exactly which parasites that is responsible without performing an autopsy, but many different parasites are fortunately sensitive to Metronidazole (Flagyl) treatment. Increasing the water temperature and providing additional aeration is also recommended. If your Discus is still eating, you can prepare a solution of 200 ml water and 10 ml liquid Flagyl and soak its favorite food in it, e.g. live worms or larvae, for about one hour. Feed your Discus medicated food every 2-3 days for 10 days. If your Discus has stopped eating it is much harder to medicate it since you will have to force feed it using a syringe without the needle. Prepare a mixture of one part liquid Flagyl, two parts Liquid fry food and three parts water. The liquid fry food is there to prevent the fish from starving to death while you treat it. Add the mixture to a syringe and place your Discus on a wet towel. Use the syringe to force 2 ml down the fish's throat and wait for it to swallow before you return it to the aquarium. It will expel a lot of the mixture through its mouth and gills, but at least a bit of it will be swallowed. You need to feed your fish the medication twice a day until it starts to recover. Being exposed to this type of treatment is naturally always highly stressful for a fish, especially one that is already weakened by parasites.

 

[Tolak]

If you have tried treating a larger fish with metro in the water, and after several days it still is not at least mouthing the food, then yes, but only if the fish is of large enough size that you can fit a small tube down its throat. This article is about adult discus, the same would apply to any other larger fish. This will not work well with smaller fish, you have to use your best judgement, sizing the equipment to the size of the fish.

I have never had to do this, but I have read that if you can get your hands on the small size cathaters that are inserted under the skin when setting up an IV on humans you have one of the best pieces of equipment made for force feeding fish. Their exact name escapes me, if you have a friend working in the medical profession these are pretty easy to come by.

 

[WILDER]

Thanks tolak.

 

[LolaLouie]

I fed daphnia and a little beef heart this morning. And although he didn't touch the beef heart he did eat a fair amount of daphnia which is his 1st food in a week.

I've got a bit of a problem because i stupidly swapped my gravel in my QT tank to sand realised I had an undergravel filter so had to go out and buy an internal filter and now have an uncycled QT tank

Anyway i think i better leave him where he is right now as my tank is currently on 0.25 ppm of ammonia and i haven't even tested nitrites so i think he's better in the main tank.

At least he's eaten something. I'm away tomorrow night so i think i'll just try the garlic think this evening and hope he's ok by sunday.

Thanks Tolak and Wilder.

p.s i've been looking everywhere for internal parasite stuff and it's impossible to get. I think i'll have a look online for the stuff you mentioned tolak!

 

[WILDER]

http/www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk/php/detail62_45492.php