Free Ammonia Vs Ionized Ammonia?

[SlyPolak]

So I read that the API ammonia test kit tests for free ammonia (NH3) and ionized ammonia (NH4+) .. Of the two forms the free ammonia is supposed to be much more toxic. Some people say only test for (NH3) free ammonia and the other is not really much of an issue.. I was about to go out a buy an ammonia test that only tests for (NH3) free ammonia , but I found a link on-line that lets you calculate the free ammonia from the API kit that tests for both (NH3) AND (NH4+) by using your PH, temp, and total ammonia!!! So here is the link I found.. http/cobweb.ecn.pu...mmonia/nh3.html .... I was wondering is this true or should I go with the results of both free and ionized ammonia ???

 

[Truck]

It wont work, because carbonates also affect the PH levels, not just ammonia.

 

[SlyPolak]

What do you mean?? Sorry I am new to the fish keeping world!! Well I know that ammonia gets more toxic the higher your PH is , but what would carbonates have to do with it if you allready have a PH reading? Wouldnt the effect of the carbonates be allready put into the equation??

 

[Truck]

Carbonates affect the carbonate hardness, and these are what help to control the PH, the higher the number of carbonates, the more controlled the PH is so the less effect ammonia would have on it.

 

[ellena]

Can't get the link to work, but I was reading something similar on here the other day. Don't quite know what you mean truck?
The one I saw took your temp and pH (a reading taking into account any carbonates in the water) and the ppm of ammonia and said how much of it would be NH[sub]3[/sub] and how much NH[sub]4[/sub]. It wasn't talking about how ammonia affects pH.

 

[SlyPolak]

Can't get the link to work, but I was reading something similar on here the other day. Don't quite know what you mean truck?
The one I saw took your temp and pH (a reading taking into account any carbonates in the water) and the ppm of ammonia and said how much of it would be NH[sub]3[/sub] and how much NH[sub]4[/sub]. It wasn't talking about how ammonia affects pH.

This one should work... http/cobweb.ecn.purdue.edu/~piwc/w3-research/free-ammonia/nh3.html

 

[Truck]

What I'm trying to get at is, that it isn't only Ammonia that can alter the PH, other chemicals can too which will reduce the accuracy of the result the site gives.

 

[SlyPolak]

Anyone else got a view on this

 

[chrisbassist]

Yes, I agree with truck.

If the equation only takes a few things into account and bases the majority of the split between the 2 forms of ammonia purely on the ph of the water then it won't be accurate because of all the other ignored variables, like carbon as already suggested.

It may get you close but it won't be right, and you won't be able to rely on it being right.

 

[Bignose]

You don't need to go to a different site, I provided the same calculations on a thread a while ago: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/154313-of-toxic-ammonia-charts/

And, yes, the carbonates do affect the pH, as do a great number of other things, but all those equilibria settle down and then the pH is what it is. Once you have the pH, then you can use that to calculate what the splits are.

The difficult calculation is when given the concentrations of multiple species of chemicals, what is the pH. The reverse, when you know the pH and calculating the splits between ionized and unionized chemical species is easy. The split between unionized and ionized ammonia can be predicted given just the temperature, pH, and salinity of the water. And the effect of salinity is very, very small. Read the article cited in the thread linked-to above.

 

[SlyPolak]

You don't need to go to a different site, I provided the same calculations on a thread a while ago: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/154313-of-toxic-ammonia-charts/

And, yes, the carbonates do affect the pH, as do a great number of other things, but all those equilibria settle down and then the pH is what it is. Once you have the pH, then you can use that to calculate what the splits are.

The difficult calculation is when given the concentrations of multiple species of chemicals, what is the pH. The reverse, when you know the pH and calculating the splits between ionized and unionized chemical species is easy. The split between unionized and ionized ammonia can be predicted given just the temperature, pH, and salinity of the water. And the effect of salinity is very, very small. Read the article cited in the thread linked-to above.

Cool, will do...

 

[Mikaila31]

still doesn't really change the fact the any ammonia means there is a problem. Things like prime will convert NH3 to mostly NH4+... I don't really see a need to know the balance between those.

 

[SlyPolak]

still doesn't really change the fact the any ammonia means there is a problem. Things like prime will convert NH3 to mostly NH4+... I don't really see a need to know the balance between those.

But I heard it only does that temporarily

 

[OldMan47]

The effect is indeed temporary. Ultimately the total ammonia must be controlled and eliminated for the fish's health.