For Miss W....

[chipper_222]

Think I know where you got the method from. Sounds distinktly similar to one of my collegues directions for tank cycling at work...

Yes indeed, i won't name the guy or the store cos i'm not sure i'm aloud to but that is the best piece of advice i have ever had and i am eternally grateful to him for telling me. Miss W, i will be sure to record daily results from the next tank i cycle in the hope that i prove your suspicions wrong. Once again, three-fingers, forget the instructions on the bottle.

Hey All,

I too am a believer in Stress Zyme, but I actually followed the recommended doses. My cycle was done in a 175L tank with 10 fish. At no stage in my cycle did Ammmonia and Nitrite ever get above 0.10ppm. Water changes were done every 2 weeks. 10 months in now with no losses.

I did a plate count on Stress Zyme at work and there is definitely a lot of bacteria in there but as to what genus that is difficult to determine.

Chip

 

[Miss Wiggle]

so we are getting somewhere closer to some evidence now at least! thankyou chipper.

so what you're saying is you dosed withh stress zyme, added fish and the levels in the tank never got over .1ppm

even 0.1ppm is very dangerous to fish and can cause permanent respiratory damage, i would not want to risk exposing my fish to even that level so not something i would be comfortable recommending. certainly not the miraculous cycle that is being claimed above!

you haven't told us the time frame over which the cycle took place which would help us to analyse this, also can you tell us what species of fish and what size they were, a standard fish-in cycle with a small bio load could never get above 0.1ppm ammonia without any extra help from products.

 

[jonnyf84]

its good to see somebody else had some success, we cannot be alone here and i would not be so persistent if i didn't feel this was a reliable and safe way to cycle. I'm still a little baffled as to why you need in depth info so much, if it works and doesn't harm the fish then shouldn't that be good enough, or is it simply out of curiosity as apposed to pesemistic views. Miss W, i see you are gonna be a tough one to convert

 

[chipper_222]

so we are getting somewhere closer to some evidence now at least! thankyou chipper.

so what you're saying is you dosed withh stress zyme, added fish and the levels in the tank never got over .1ppm

even 0.1ppm is very dangerous to fish and can cause permanent respiratory damage, i would not want to risk exposing my fish to even that level so not something i would be comfortable recommending. certainly not the miraculous cycle that is being claimed above!

you haven't told us the time frame over which the cycle took place which would help us to analyse this, also can you tell us what species of fish and what size they were, a standard fish-in cycle with a small bio load could never get above 0.1ppm ammonia without any extra help from products.

Hey MW,

Fish Species: 4 x Angels, 2 x Silver Sharks, 2 x Red Rainbows and 2 x Bronze Corys all juveniles.

0.10ppm being on the safe side, I can't remember getting anything over 0.05, weekly testing now is <0.01 for both NH3 and NO2. NO3 is 5.0mg/L.

The Stress Zyme was added in the first 2 weeks of cycling. 10mLs per 38L on the 1st, 7th and 14th days.

Chip

 

[chipper_222]

also MW, I can give you all my NH3, NO2 and NO3 levels for the duration of the the cycle if you wish. All the results are at work which I will get for you on Monday if you are interested.

Chip

 

[andywg]

I'm still a little baffled as to why you need in depth info so much, if it works and doesn't harm the fish then shouldn't that be good enough,

Asking for daily readings of substances hazardous to the long term health of fish is hardly in depth info when the product is designed to keep those levels low.

i see you are gonna be a tough one to convert

I doubt it. I would expect Miss W to be more than happy to believe the product works if someone can actually provide some readings from a cycle (but prefereably more than one to show repeatability) indicating that this product works.

One thing you haven't addressed is your claim that it took 25 days max to cycle with Stress Zyme, yet Bignose cycled with ammonia within 21 days. Why pay out for the chemical when waiting for but 3 weeks allows you to stock to the max?

For the record, I have read some good things about Stress Zyme and it does appear to have some modcium of success. Cycled media it ain't, but it certainly shows promise.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

thankyou andy, couldn't have put it better myself.

everyday we get people turning up on the forum saying they've just bought a tank, stuck fish in, half have died and they've never even heard of cycling let alone considered it. It's pretty traumatic for the fish keppers not to mention the poor innocent fish who'se lives are lost. If I could tell them some miracle product that worked to instantly cycle the tank and bring the levels down to a safe point then I would be delighted with this outcome.

I would really love for you to prove me wrong

However I am not about to advertise something as a miracle cure for cycling with just one person on the internet telling me it worked for them. No offence to you but I don't know you from Adam, for all I know you could work for the company who make stress zyme and be employed to go round forums posting this stuff up to get people to buy it! Not suggesting that you actually are, but I'm not about to start making recommendations until we at least get some detailed cycle results from a few people showing the progress of it and it's effects. As Andy said a few weeks worth of measurements of toxic levels is hardly in depth. You wanna see some scientific in depth stuff hop over to the scientific foruma dn have a read of some of bignoses's posts. If we've that level of info saying one thing then we need the same level to counter it!

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, well said Andy. You counldn't find a better combination of good listener and straight talker than MW.

The healthy skepticism on TFF about bottled bacterial products has a long history if one has the time to read. My own feeling from the searches I've done is that it has a reasonable basis in the reports of hundreds of members. For every account of a success or a partial success, there seem to be many disappointments reported.

Any large forum of free speaking individuals usually has the good effect of allowing new observations to be heard and I don't think there is any exception here. For example, I've noticed dutiful reporting of the perception of slightly greater success over the years of Bactinettes and Bio-Spira, often with the accompanying observations that transport and refridgeration disparity seem to cause great differences in success rate.

Since the majority of the members reports have continued to fall on the side of disappointment over the years, it seems quite reasonable for the burden of proof to fall more on the side of anyone with a new success story. This is especially important because we have an obligation to try our best to give beginners as smooth a ride as possible through the turbulence of starting their first tank. A bad experience with a first tank can sometimes put people off the hobby and bottled bacteria products have often given that bad experience.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Yes, well said Andy. You counldn't find a better combination of good listener and straight talker than MW.

i do my best!

 

[rdd1952]

Having tried both Stress Zyme and Cycle, I am extremely skeptical. I tried SZ on 3 occasions and nothing happened. The only thing that would convince me that it worked would be a some type daily chart with numbers showing the results. And using SZ alone with no fish or ammonia source isn't enough to make a point since there is only a minimum of ammonia in the product. It would have to be a test with fish in the tank and normal feedings or with the use of ammonia (or some other ammonia source).

And the fact that it definitely contains bacteria means nothing. The bacteria could be any species and basically be useless for nitrification.

 

[chipper_222]

Can someone explain my success with a fish-in cycle then? Being my first attempt at fish keeping I find it more than just coincidence that I had a successful cycle. Maybe I just got lucky!

My results are still available if anyone is interested?

Cheers

Chip

 

[Corleone]

With the proper process, it's quite doable. With LFS standard advice (which the OP is pretty much covering)... Well, there's typically between 5 and 10 threads detailing the "success" of various users on that on the front pages of the new to the hobby and new to the forums sections.

 

[rabbut]

Well more stats would be needed to say for sure Chip, but with a low fish load in a large enough tank, you would not put enough waste into the tank to make a big ammonia or nitrite spike. Basically, if you stock slow and light you can fish-in cycle without waterchanging to lower ammonia or nitrite, but this can be done without any "instant cycle" product. IME, these products don't make any difference.

Before I would feel comfortable recomending SZ to a newbie, I'd need to see multiple successes with the product, doing what it says on the tin (or plastic bottle in this case ) such that the successes are as high in number, or higher, than the failures of the product. I would also want to see some viable reasons for my multiple failures with the product. Why has this product failed for me when used before in a fishless cycle? I think that will be a tough one for you to answer, and if you want any more info to help, just ask

The thing that will be hardest to quash is members seeing at best, patchy success with the product. Whether or not it works can easily be shown in a recorded set-up and cycle of a tank. Success rates will be your killer here I suspect, and you would need to explain the high failure rates of the product and crucially how to avoid a failure before it becomes a viable recomendation to forum newbies. I would not be happy recomending a product to a new member knowing there is a fair chance that the product could harm the members fish by not doing it's job, especially if I cannot advise how to avoid the problems of the product. Convince me that the product works consistantly and you are onto a winner. I am however scepticle, though I am open to opinion change if you can bring it about.

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Can someone explain my success with a fish-in cycle then? Being my first attempt at fish keeping I find it more than just coincidence that I had a successful cycle. Maybe I just got lucky!

My results are still available if anyone is interested?

Cheers

Chip

yes chip we would be very interested to hear the full details of your cycle, if you can give us the daily results, the size of the tank, your tap water param's, what fish you added and any other details like the water changes you did etc.

 

[chipper_222]

yes chip we would be very interested to hear the full details of your cycle, if you can give us the daily results, the size of the tank, your tap water param's, what fish you added and any other details like the water changes you did etc.

MW, will have that information for you mid next week, once I get back to work.