For EI users

[zig]

Ok i had been having trouble getting hold of KH2PO4 potassium phosphate, and after trying the usual sources i had no success ( some had it but they wouldnt sell it to me even in small quantities ) so i decided to start looking for alternative sources of phosphate or products that would have high concentrations of phosphate to see if it was possible to use those instead.

I had read on another board that sodium phosphate could also be used as an alternative and one product was mentioned as having high phosphate concentrations that would be suitable if dosed correctly, the product was called "Fleet Enema" this product is used as a laxative and is sold over the counter in nearly every pharmacy in America (the board i got the information from has mainly American members, and as we know products can vary this side of the world or may not exist at all)

So to make a long storey short i went to my local chemist and asked for Fleet Enema and to my amazement was handed a bottle of well....Fleet enema.....

So its exactly the same product as had been described on the other forum.......Yipeee.......PO4 at last.

Anyway heres how it works (ill try and post a pic of the bottle and box it came in tomorrow)

The solution is allready made up it comes in a 133ml size bottle.

Im going to quote a passage from the guy who in 2001 discovered that this solution was suitable for planted tank use.........he says.......

"Each bottle contains 19g. of Sodium Phosphate and 7g. Diabasic Sodium, the auctual concentration of PO4 in each bottle is 131.36 mg/ml based on the full 133ml in each bottle"

And then he gives examples for doseing, so in my own case a 160 liter tank the doseing would work as follows.

1 ml of enema would provide 131/160 = (approx) 0.80 mg/L (or ppm) in my tank

So basically thats all there is to it, just work out the appropriate doseage for your for your setup based on the liters that your tank holds.

But the really good news is that this stuff is readily available and dirt cheap it cost me Euro 1.38 (about a pound stg) for the 133ml and will do me for about 6 months.

It should be widely available in the UK in any pharmacy it comes in a green box which is labeled "Fleet ready to use enema Phosphate formula"

I bet all the non EI followers found the above really interesting........

 

[George Farmer]

I'm lucky in that 500g of pure KH2PO4 (should last me a life time) costs me around £7 inc. P&P, same for KNO3. I still can't find any K2SO4 though in UK.

What's your tap PO4 BTW? Mine is 5ppm although I use 50% RO, even with these high levels (50% weekly water change) I still have to dose PO4.

Ironic that I used to use RowaPhos eh?

How's your tank looking? Any pics?

 

[zig]

I was thrilled to bits it made my day .........how sad is that.

I was getting worried that i was going to have a major algae mess on my hands if i didnt start doseing PO4 quickly, ive been doseing KNO3 just over a week now and traces and i dosed 1 lot of K2SO4 all at the recommended levels, but i was starting at 0 nitrates, new tank, high biomass of plants, low fishload, so i had to build up the nitrate level slowly doseing everyday small amounts, its up to about 5ppm at the moment, but im doseing more now to get it up to 10-15ppm, so it should take about another week to get to those levels and then ill just dose as normal thereafter.

Basically things are growing very fast with the addition of the KNO3, major growth this week so once the phosphate starts kicking in i should be well on the way to stabiliseing the tank and hopefully no algae problems.

TBH i havent a clue what my tap levels are for PO4, im just assuming they are low or non existent (test kit winging its way from the UK as we speak) it tested 0 for nitrates and according to our local council there is 0 phosphate in the tap water, ill test it early next week but dose in the meantime anyway.

If you ever feel you need to dose K2SO4 i could allways send you some i have about 150 grammes left over if you wanted it, cant remember how much that would make but it would keep you going until you can source some, but you mightnt need it a lot of people dont use it.

My digital camera is brutal, hope to borrow one from my sis in the next day or so and will post pics then.

Have a good weekend............phew its very humid over here

 

[George Farmer]

Thanks for the offer of K2SO4 - I'll let you know. At the mo all is well without it.

IME the only algae I know of attributed to PO4 dfcy. is green spot/mat. I used RowaPhos for almost 2 years (PO4 undetectable) and this was the only algae I experienced (except BGA but that was low NO3). In fact many still use PO4 limitation as algae control - the Conlin and Sears PMDD paper is proof of this.

Thankfully EI seems better though and we can all experience algae freedom at last!!

It's hot here too. My tank is at 29C with heater unplugged!

 

[jimboliana]

Eeeeeer Dime bar

What is EI?

 

[zig]

EI stands for "The Estimative Index" its a method of doseing your tank with dry fertilisers, have a read of this and see what you think.

Estimative Index

A few of us have started useing it, it also saves you a fortune buying liquid ferts and it gives you lots of control over how your plants are growing, well thats the simplified version, have a read its very interesting.

 

[jimboliana]

Thanks Zig

Nuff amount of reading to do now, hey but as my tank looks like it is on standby i have all the time in the world

 

[Sime]

What's your tap PO4 BTW? Mine is 5ppm although I use 50% RO, even with these high levels (50% weekly water change) I still have to dose PO4.

Hi GF - not meaning to sound silly here but i've never understood this.... where does you PO4 go once in the tank?

If you're dosing PO4 that must mean it's lower than 5 in there? I know the plants use some but didnt think it was that much?

My tap water is 1-ithought that was about right or PO4 levels.... but i'm a bit confussed now

again sorry if it's obvious!

 

[iggy01]

Glad you found a phosphate source Zig. I didn't know you were struggling to find one. Just keep an eye on your nitrates. You may find nitrate consumption will go up with the addition of extra phosphate.

Good luck!

 

[George Farmer]

I use 50:50 tap/RO so only 2.5 ppm PO4 goes in water change.

My plants use up PO4 at approx 0.3 to 0.6 ppm per day. Unless I dose PO4 my level goes down to zero in less than 7 days.

I aim for a constant PO4 of 1ppm now which I'm acheiving (if my kit is accurate). The main thing is my plants are growing like mad with no algae. Can't argue with that!

 

[George Farmer]

What's your tap PO4 BTW? Mine is 5ppm although I use 50% RO, even with these high levels (50% weekly water change) I still have to dose PO4.

Hi GF - not meaning to sound silly here but i've never understood this.... where does you PO4 go once in the tank?

If you're dosing PO4 that must mean it's lower than 5 in there? I know the plants use some but didnt think it was that much?

My tap water is 1-ithought that was about right or PO4 levels.... but i'm a bit confussed now

again sorry if it's obvious!

I use 50:50 tap/RO so only 2.5 ppm PO4 goes in water change.

My plants use up PO4 at approx 0.3 to 0.6 ppm per day. Unless I dose PO4 my level goes down to zero in less than 7 days.

I aim for a constant PO4 of 1ppm now which I'm acheiving (if my kit is accurate). The main thing is my plants are growing like mad with no algae. Can't argue with that!

zig - Iggy01 has a good point about NO3 consumption rising with addition of PO4 - mine did.

 

[Sime]

thankyou GF, i see more clearer now... i thought the whole 5 was going in then the level going down to 0 between changes

The main thing is my plants are growing like mad with no algae. Can't argue with that!

nice one

 

[zig]

Thanks iggy and gf, mmmm didnt know that, will definatly keep an eye on it, ive been testing every day or so anyway as i have been increaseing the KNO3 to try and get to a level of 10-15ppm, ill just have to start doseing more, thanks for the tip guys.