Here we go again- Small bio-farm started.

[TwoTankAmin]

I swore I was done with summer tanks. But the universe always reminds us we are not really in control of anything. Due to exiting the hobby soon and needing to sell a lot of stock, I find I needed to have 4 x 20L up and running shortly and that they would also be coming with me to a major fish event in Sept. where i have a decent space in the vendor room. I bring real tanks and cycled filters to such events.

I also tend to keep a bottle of Dr. Tim's One and Only Bacteria in my fridge in case. I usually augment it with filter squeezings from some of my established tanks. Usually I need to do this due to the volume of filters, But I am only cycling eight x 4x4x4 Poret foam 20 ppi cubefilters. They are all in a single 20L. I set it up on Sunday late afternoon. A few hours later I dropped in a bag of crushed coral and added ammonium chloride (NH4) from my own mix. I have a big jug full of the NH4 in dry form. So I took and empty bottle of the Dr. Tim's NH4 and calculated ow much of the dry mix I needed to add to the bottle along with my RO/Di water to make a similar mix. I doses 1 ml of my solution, which I had mixed last year, waited about 16 or 20 minutes and tested.

It read way too low so I redosed 1 ml and retested in a while and it was now 2 ppm. So I added two more ml and when I tested again I was between 4 and 5 ppm. Incidentally i use the API kit like most here. So I poured in the bottle of Dr. Tim's. It was rated for up to 65 gal. tanks but it had been in the fridge for a number of months and I tool it out to get to room temperature earlier in the day.

I tested Monday morning and I was almost unchanged for ammonia. I tested agine in the evening and saw minimal change, On Tuesday by days end I was reading about 2 ppm. I just tested a little while ago and I am at .25 ppm. We have a thunder storm ongoing but I hope to do a 50% or more water change and redose 4 ml of ammonia into the tank by day's end.

Considering my NH4 solution was on the weak side from age and that the Dr. Tim's was also on the older side, I am happy with the progress. Were I only cycling a single tank I would be adding a full fish load on day 3. I could have added less bacteria and then followed the directions on Dr. Tim's site for fishless cycling using his bacteria, but then it would have taken more like 7-10 days to get where I am now.

However, I need to ramp up the filters to handle 4 times the volume of water but also in 4 tanks not 1. So the process will go like this. Change water, dose 4 ml, test ammonia, wait 12 hours and test again. The goal is to be able to add between 12 and 16 ml of ammonia per day to the tank to get all the filters to the point I can put two into each of the 4 20Ls and somewhat overstock the tanks immediately.

Just a few notes on the set-up. Normally, if a tank has substrate there are a lot of bacteria colonizing it once the tank is established. However. I am not cyling tanks I am cycling filters and i want 100% of the bacteria int them. Once I set up the tanks they will all get a sand bottom of about an inch. There will be no live plants. So, over time there will be bacteria colonizing the substrate in each of the tanks.

So when I head to the event in Sept. and take the tanks and filters, the substrate will not come. Fortunately, a lot of live plants for sale will come as will plenty of Poly Filter. So I will have no issues in the tanks despite leaving a portion of the needed bacteria behind. One advantage I have is that I do not feed the fish over the 4 day weekend

When I ship fish every bag gets a piece of the Poly Filter mentioned above> If you a curious about Poly Filter, have a read here https://www.poly-bio-marine.com/ I have used this stuff for many years and I need to buy more once again.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Well I figured out why it took so much NH4 the first time. I was using an old bottle sold by Dr. Tim. Once opened it loses strength and this bottle was 1.5 years old. I found the right bottle and got to about 5 ppm with two doses having added 1 ML from the wrong bottle first. That means my mixture is still producing 2+ ppm in the tank from a 1 ml dose. The tank may be a 20L but I estimate is only holds about 16.6 gal.s maybe a tad less. All those filters and the pair of heaters take up a bit of volume.

I was able to get onto the terrace after the downpour which had it pretty wet. I estimate I did the water change and added the ammonia at about 4:30 pm. I will test the tank in the late morning tomorrow. Compared to last year where I had the same 4 tanks plus a 50, a pair of 40s and a 10, this year should be easy.

Swiss Tropicals shipped my 4 Poret tank dividers and the filters in the bio-farm should be ready in about a week and then I can have all 4 tanks up and fish safe. That will allow me to break down some breeders tanks and pull offspring. I know the WC 173 tank is chocked full of them. So is the super white 236 tank. I have had to suspend shipping due to the Canadian fires. Too many flights are getting delayed or rerouted to risk shipping. If it isn't awful air here, then it is someplace else where the fish might go. At least at this time.

I will keep this thread updated re the progress. I have not yet bothered to test the TDS. I will do that tomorrow. Once I am doing multiple ammonia additions in a day it becomes a lot easier for things to go offtrack. Either there is not enough KH or else there may be too much nitrate. The key to a fast cycle in the bio-farm is staying on top of everything all the time.

But one big advantage of doing the Bio-farm for filters instead of cycling individual tanks comes when There are delays in needing toi get the rest of the tanks going. it is a lot easier to keep the bio-farm filters cycled than what it takes to keep 4 individual tanks going with no fish in them yet. For one, it means fewer water changes.

edited for spelling and typos

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Quick post- just did an ammonia test= it is at 0. I will be adding another 4-5 ppm after I hit post reply. I will check the TDS as well.

Test result for TDS is 91 ppm. This is pretty close to my tap reading in the low 80s.

edited to add TDS info

 

[TwoTankAmin]

After posting yesterday I did a large water change- I estimate at least 60%. Then I added 1 ML of NH4 from the wrong bottle and 2 ML from the right bottle. I did not test, but I estimated that was between 4.5 and 5.5 ppm.

I got busy doing water changes last evening. Had a late dinner and fell asleep without testing. This morning at 9:30 AM the test read 0. TDS tested at 98 ppm, a small rise which is to be expected.

I added 3 ml of NH4 from the right bottle. The test indicted that was between 4 and 5 ppm. call it 4.5. That indicates my solution is a bit weaker than I had assumed. So I added a 4th ml. While we read that ammonia should not exceed 5 ppm. But if we read carefully we see that 5 ppm is on the nitrogen scale. But the API kit I used tests using the Total Ion scale. On that scale the 6 ppm on the nitrogen scale will read at about 6.25 ppm on the Total Ion scale. So I am willing to add 6 ppm on the API scale, or even a bit more.

The trick is I already know there are bacteria in the tank able to process at least 4 ppm in under 24 hours for sure. I would guess the max time is closer to 18 hours. That means when I added the ammonia this morning, I was feeding hungry bacteria. As soon as the ammonia hit the water and began to circulate. the bacteria started to process it. So even if I added 6 ppm and then waited 15 minutes to test, I know that some amount of the ammonia will have been consumed. It should read less than 6 ppm by a bit. This would not happen if there were not a large amount of bacteria (and likely Archaea) already established in the tank.

One important takeaway from this is that there are two ways to look at things. My project is to cycle filters to make 4 x 20 L tanks able to hold a full fish load as soon as they are set up. However, the first step in that process is to get that single tank cycled as a normal 20L. And I did that in about 3 days. And the reason this happened was because the bacteria in the bottle were the right ones. One addition of bacteria is all it took. I have to admit that the bottle of bacteria, even though a number of months old, was more that would be needed in a single 20L. At most it was 3 times and at worst double what should be used for a single 20L..

But, when folks asks how to speed up a cycle the answer comes in two parts. First, start with more of the needed microorganisms and make sure they include the needed types. Seeded bacteria needs to have both ammonia oxidizers and nitrite oxidizers and in balance. Because I am heading towards a different end than is normal in a fishless cycle, I need to seed more than normal for that size tank.

However, I could have moved more slowly and spent less money the way I did last year. But last year I had 8 tanks rated for a total of 210 gals. I also started earlier. As a result, I used the same amount of bacteria as I did this year and the result was it took me about 2 weeks to get the filters cycled. But I stalled myself for a couple of days last summer because of a miscalculation. DOH!

I will for sure test for ammonia late afternoon or early evening today.

edited for spelling and typos

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Sorry about not keeping up on this thread. Sometime life doesn't go as planned. I have been doing gardening, plant pruning and weeding as well as normal tank maint. I am behind on testing. SInce my last post I have added 4-5 ppm of ammonia twice in 24 hours or so and I tend to get a 0 reading in 24. Things appeared to slow and the TDS rose and the pH dropped below 7 so I did a much needed large water change and added anothe larger bag of coral.. The TDS dropped from about 113 ppm to close to 90. I tested ammonia this morning having doses most recently late yesterday afternoon and I have 0. So in will go another dose. I am not sure if I should be changing water after 2 or 3 ammonia additions.

The one thing most likely to cause issue in running a bio-farm is the pH/ The cycle itself is acid. This is what old tank syndrome is all about. Failure to do water changes build up nitrate which produce acid. As the nitrates rise, the pH drops. Doing a big cycle in a small space means that things can go off the rails easily if one is not paying attention.

I need to get the other three tanks set up with substrate, decor a tank divider and heaters (one in each half). I will then move over a pair of filters and put them one in each half as well. I will have to rearrange the air pump and manifold so it is more user friendly for supplying 4 tanks as opposed to a single tank holding all the filters. I also tend to dose the new tank with ammonia once or twice to insure it is safe for fish. Sometime I will even double down on making sure of the cycle and I will squeeze out a filter sponge from a cycled tank in the new tank when I add the Poret cubefilters. This also puts some bacteria into the substrate to colonize. None of the outdoor tanks have lights and they are painted black and/or use a black bakground equivalent on 3 sides. So live plants are not used.

At this time I consider the filters to be ready to go and I am no linger cycling them I am keeping them cycled.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Sorry about no updates for a bit, but the rest of life got in the way and I was unable to pay proper attention to things. The result was a mini-stall. The cause was a pH drop to the mid-6s. This basically put it all into slow motion. The solution was pretty basic and it was to add Baking Soda:

Sodium bicarbonate, commonly known as baking soda or bicarbonate of soda, is a chemical compound with the formula NaHCO₃. It is a salt composed of a sodium cation and a bicarbonate anion. Sodium bicarbonate is a white solid that is crystalline, but often appears as a fine powder.

from wiki

To raise the KH without raising the GH, add sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3), commonly known as baking soda. 1/2 teaspoon per 100 Liters raises the KH by about 1 dH. Sodium bicarbonate drives the pH towards an equilibrium value of 8.2.

from FINS

I added 1/2 teaspoon to what is effectively about 16-17 gallons (about 62l). Not only does this raise the KH which in turn raises the pH, but the bacteria use the bicarbonate to provide inorganic carbon. So it works on two fronts. I added 2 ml of ammonium chloride to bump the tank to at least 4 ppm as nitrogen or a tad more on the TI scale *about 5 ppm). I just tested and there is 0 ppm. I will add another 2 ml shortly.

So the tank cleared 5 ppm of ammonia on an API kit in about 18-19 hours. So I am on track and still boosting the bacterial counts in the 8 filters. I think I may need more than the 4 x 20L tanks for the Keystone Clash which means i will need more filters cycled.

On a side note, PetCo was having its semi annual tank sale. I figured to grab another 20L and 29. The nice thing about these two tanks is they both use the same size lid 30 x 12 inch. Petco is copletely out of these in stores and online. I was willing to pay their high price for lids yo go on the two tanks. But no lids means I will not buy the tanks.

I had a hard time locating this size Aqueon lid anywhere online. Hmmmmm.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Early last evening I checked and the ammonia was down. So I added 3 ml of NH4. This morning I was at 0. However, the TDS were up to about 170 ppm and the pH was borderline 7.0 or just under. The baking soda and crushed coral combind with the creation o fnitrate are what is driving up the TDS.

Basically the filters are ready to go into tanks when I am ready to use them. But a sale which would have created space and a need to start moving around fish was postponed when the buyer's work send him to Dallas/Ft. Worth. He was going to fly in from N. Dakota to NY to pick up the fish and fly them home. So I have to wait until he return from Texas.

I need to be changing water no daily or the tank will have issues. I am dosing between 8 and 12 ppm of ammonia daily in several additions. This is governed bt the test results. The nice thing about the bacteria is that once they are established they will hold their numbers even if ammonia is not added daily. However, if the ammonia, or other essential things like oxygen or inorganic carbon dissapear, they sense this and will enter a sense state of dormancy.

This is why when one is trying to keep a tank cycled but has no fish, it is more important to surge ammonia skipping a day or two but then adding the full dose. The reason is simple when it comes to the ammonia part.

- No ammonia means the bacteria will go to sleep shortly. They will wake back up when the ammonia is again available.
- More ammonia than is needed for the colony to thrive means they will reproduce.
- Less ammonia than is need to keep the colony numbers constant means more cells will die than will be created by division.

In essence, the cycle is governed by ammonia. How much nitrite and nitrate might be created is determined by how much ammonia is available at the start. This is a bit of simplification as there are other factors that will affect things, but ammonia is the major factor.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

It is 5 pm here and the afternoon test results are about in, 60 secs left on the ammonia test.
TDS are 154 ppm
pH is dead on 7.2
Ammonia is between .25 and .50 ppm. I did not test after dosing this morning, but I targetted 5 ppm based on about 2.5 ml added. I plan to add 3 ml shortly and then will wait about 5 minutes to test. With 8 filters bubbling away, it should almost be like a decent power-head in terms of how fast things mix in tha small amiunt of water. I will not post the thread until I have that reading.
(Isn't the live action exciting? NOT!)
tick tick tick darn I knocked over the vial befor I had put on the cap- mulligan time.
(A mulligan is a second chance to perform an action, usually after the first chance went wrong through bad luck or a blunder.)
tick tick tick tick...........
tock tock tock tock.........

Argh- the solution is still weak. The test said about 3 ppm which is too low. I am going to strengthen the solution a bit by adding a bit more ammonium chloride powder.

Done. I dosed another ml and will test shortly, But I am a day behind doing WCs on the 6 pleco tanks in the fish space (5 x 33L + 1 x 40L). ISo i am off and will post the final outcome after dinner.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

When I retested I was over clearly over 4 but not close to 8. I figured the level was 5 - 5.5 ppm.

I just finished midnight testing:
Ammonia just under 1 ppm.
pH just under 7.2.
TDS 164 ppm.

I am going to add 2 ml of the revamped solution which is now about 2 ppm/1 ml. I should hit about 5 ppm +/- .50. I wont bother to test as tomorrow I will definitely do a water change.

one of the thing which makes things so sensitive here is due to how little water is actually in the 20L with all the filters. I had a similar issue last year because I was cycling way more filters in a 40B which were going into 8 tanks holding 220 gals. vs the 8 filters of the same size going into 4 tanks holding80 gals. And those volume numbers are based on the advertised tank size, not the actual water volume involveed which is smaller by about 15%. However, this years a 20L with 2 heaters and 8 foam filters 4x4x4 inches mounted on a slightly smaller tile. and with uplift tubes. So I am cycling filters for more tan 4 times the amount of water in the bio-farm, tank.

I am working on obtaining a number of less expensive fish than what I breed as I also need to have some less expensive fish to sell at the Keystone Clash in Sept. I grabbed 6 albino ancistrus at tonight's fish club auction. But for some reason they were the only fish. I had planned to buy up anything I could grab. Not luck on that. There were 3 huge sword plants that went for $20 for all three. But I do not have a big tank to put them in for the next few months. I can make use of the summer tanks to hold things I buy to resell at the event.
the club does not meet in July so August is my last shot. i will have to get a bit clever to find other sources.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I am waiting for the ammonia test to finish "cooking." Roughly 11 hours since dosing ammoniathe readings are surprisingly stable.
- pH is dead on 7.0.
- TDS were almost unchemage at 166 ppm.
- Ammonia is at 0.

I have the water for a big change ready and the pumps are now living on the terrace. I will continue adding ammonia to abetween 5 and 6 ppm on the API Total ion test kit which keeps me under 5 ppm of ammonia-N. The max on the nitrogen scale translate to about 6.4 ppm on the API kit. So I have a margin of error of about .4 ppm. It could be a tad more as when I test 0 ammonia it suggests that the bacteria are likely "hungry" and will gobble some of that ammonia right away. The problem is I have no idea how much that gobble might be and I cannot afford a continuous ammonia monitor of lab grade needed for that (Hach has one starting at $26,635).

As far as I am concerned there is no real need to continue posting here. I need to keep up with regular water changes and dosing ammonia to about a max of 12 ppm every 24 hours. There is a bit of leeway in that. if I add 5-6 ppm then I need to dose twice aday. if I drop the dose from 3 to 2 ml using the boosted mix that would be about 4 ppm and mean dosing every 8 hours. 2 doses at 5 -6 ppm means two per day. But it also means I need to be at 0 ppm for sure before I redose to close to 6 ppm.

One closing observation re cycling a number of tank individually all at the same time v.s. my bio-farm approach. If I were trying to cycle these 4 20Ls I need to be testing each tank independently. Despite having the same water and ammonium chloride etc. this will not mean all 4 tanks will cycle exactly the same. So each time I have to test I have to do 4 tests not one. Considering how easy it is using a 5 ml tube to have a small amount above or below the line. The there is the drop sizes which can vary a tiny bit as well.

I need about 12 gals of water to do echanges in the farm. The 4 tanks would need more like 50+. But when cycling individual tanks we have more wiggle room. We only need to add 2 or 3 ppm of ammonia once every 24 hours and it should not be possible to overdose this way. On the other hand, the bio-farm method is much more difficult to manage. Everything becomes more concentrated which means the potential for error is greatly magnified. There is almost no wiggle room at all doing a farm.

I started doing the bio-farms years back. originally it was a mix of wanting to cycle new filters but it was used even more to hold the cycle on filters when I broke down tanks especially hen upgrading tank sizes. So I would have a fair number of already cycled filters going into the farm and I had less need for using Dr. Tim's. I simple rinsed out the media from the cyled filters into the farm water to allow some of it to be sucked into the media of the new filters. I also operated on a somewhat smaller scale when I began doing this.

I was actually still in my phase of using household ammonia to cycle and the drops per 10/gal methodology for adding ammonia. I had no TDS meters, I had not discovered ammonium chloride yet either.

The last thing I can say is that in all the times I have done a bio-farm, even those where I was still in the learning curve and managed to stall things some, I have never lost a single fish when I set up, and often overstoocked, the tank when the filters were moved from the farm to the tank.