perhaps i have not been clear. its flow through the filter i am talking about. I have no information on the benefits of just adding higher currents. thinking about it though, if may well help any bactrea you have in your substrate, but could also cause problems for some fish we keep.
For All You Juwel Owners With A Juwel Internal
- Thread starter Truck
- Start date
perhaps i have not been clear. its flow through the filter i am talking about. I have no information on the benefits of just adding higher currents. thinking about it though, if may well help any bactrea you have in your substrate, but could also cause problems for some fish we keep.
OP
OP
Truck
UKAPS
anything with long flowing fins wont appreciate lots of current.
i have been on about filter flow too!
i have been on about filter flow too!
ahh, sorry
with you now, i think, lol 
what power of filter would you need, in your tank, to help with flow? as you plant your tank, i would remove the Juwel item and install something like a Fluavl 4 plus, possibly 2. though a Tetratec 1200 external would be a better bet, unless you want to go for Eheim. but thats a whole other thread, lol.I want to clear up this 5X turnover thing:
i do not say that your fish will die if you do not have this turnover. it is simply a figure, that seems to be gaining credence, that we should all try to atain as an "ideal standard".
OP
OP
Truck
UKAPS
eventually im going with an external (say for my birthday) but im a little cloudy on how to prime them, im looking at a eheim proffesional.
rabbut
I don't bite, all that often...
OK, you want the 5X an hour filter flow minimum thing clearing up, so I'll try clear it up for you 
Filter manufacturer's will have a flow rate through the filter media that they consider "best" for filtration, and will adjust the surface area to pump ratio accordingly to get what they think is the most "efficient" combination of flow and surface area for biological filtration. They next examin the bioload of a "typical" tank that they see it running on, and decide how much media by volume the filter will need to cope with it, and then they add a little (or a lot in Juwel's case) to allow the bacteria the space they need. They then work backwards with the volume and surface area, to sort out the height they need on their filter. This is why filters with the same flow rate all have different dimentions
The Surface area affects the speed the water passes through the filter, and the height affects the media volume to make for enough space to enable the filter to remove ammonia for a modest bio-load.
They then think that because their filter is more efficinet than everyone else's, they get ambitious about the size of tank it can do and claim a larger size than it is capable of running. In reality, you will only get the filter to effectively run a tank 2/3 of the size it's recomended for, while giving good biological and mechanical filtration. When you go digging, you typically find that these filters push 5X an hour flow in a tank that is 2/3 of the size that it is recomended for, in the case of most filters
Now, biological efficincy theoretically increases with reduced flow, due to increased contact time, so theoretically, reducing your flow will increase efficincy. However, don't be fooled. If you slow the flow too much, the filter connot remove the ammonia as quickly as it is being produced, as the ammonia isn't getting to the media quickly enough. This can lead to higher than normal (ammonia and nitrite are always present in a tank that has fish in it, just they are below the normal limits of our test kits) ammonia and nitrite readings that may then show on the test kits you use. Not good
Trust the manufacturer to have fitted the correct pump for the filter and leave it alone, unless you have researched flow rates and where efficent bio filtration and ammonia being supplied quick enough meet your demands Optimum flow through filter media is very debatable, and vary's between like 1cm per second and 10cm per second, depending on whom you ask and whom you believe...
For what it's worth, I rate the Juwel internals quite highly My Juwel Record 98 was stocked to 4" per gallon with tetras and livebearers at one point, with just the standord Juwel internal, un-modifyed, fitted to it. Ammonia and nitrite remained zero, and the flow from the filter effectively picked up and removed the three L number Pleco's waste from the tank. The Floss needed weekly changes and large waterchanges were needed every other day to keep nitrate in check, but the filter itself coped well 
All the best
Rabbut
Filter manufacturer's will have a flow rate through the filter media that they consider "best" for filtration, and will adjust the surface area to pump ratio accordingly to get what they think is the most "efficient" combination of flow and surface area for biological filtration. They next examin the bioload of a "typical" tank that they see it running on, and decide how much media by volume the filter will need to cope with it, and then they add a little (or a lot in Juwel's case) to allow the bacteria the space they need. They then work backwards with the volume and surface area, to sort out the height they need on their filter. This is why filters with the same flow rate all have different dimentions
The Surface area affects the speed the water passes through the filter, and the height affects the media volume to make for enough space to enable the filter to remove ammonia for a modest bio-load.They then think that because their filter is more efficinet than everyone else's, they get ambitious about the size of tank it can do and claim a larger size than it is capable of running. In reality, you will only get the filter to effectively run a tank 2/3 of the size it's recomended for, while giving good biological and mechanical filtration. When you go digging, you typically find that these filters push 5X an hour flow in a tank that is 2/3 of the size that it is recomended for, in the case of most filters
Now, biological efficincy theoretically increases with reduced flow, due to increased contact time, so theoretically, reducing your flow will increase efficincy. However, don't be fooled. If you slow the flow too much, the filter connot remove the ammonia as quickly as it is being produced, as the ammonia isn't getting to the media quickly enough. This can lead to higher than normal (ammonia and nitrite are always present in a tank that has fish in it, just they are below the normal limits of our test kits) ammonia and nitrite readings that may then show on the test kits you use. Not good
Trust the manufacturer to have fitted the correct pump for the filter and leave it alone, unless you have researched flow rates and where efficent bio filtration and ammonia being supplied quick enough meet your demands Optimum flow through filter media is very debatable, and vary's between like 1cm per second and 10cm per second, depending on whom you ask and whom you believe...For what it's worth, I rate the Juwel internals quite highly
My Juwel Record 98 was stocked to 4" per gallon with tetras and livebearers at one point, with just the standord Juwel internal, un-modifyed, fitted to it. Ammonia and nitrite remained zero, and the flow from the filter effectively picked up and removed the three L number Pleco's waste from the tank. The Floss needed weekly changes and large waterchanges were needed every other day to keep nitrate in check, but the filter itself coped well All the best
Rabbut
OP
OP
Truck
UKAPS
any help with the external?
rabbut
I don't bite, all that often...
Priming is starting the syphen to fill the canister and hoses with water before you switch it on. Bedding-in is the few days after a clean or it's first start, where it runs unusually noisy for a while before settling down again in it's quiet running state
Priming methods vary from filter to filter. Fluvals, Eheim classics and Pro1's all need "manually" priming IME (Don't bother with the Fluval priming pump, it's more trouble than it's worth). This is where you set-up the inlet pipe in the tank and fully plumb up. Then you take the outlet off the back and position it over a bucket. Suck hard for a second or two and then place the outlet into the bucket. The filter will now start to prime. Wait for the water to come through the outlet and start to fill the bucket (this can take a few minuites). Once the bucket is nearly full, close the tap(s) and re-hang the outlet on the back of the tank. Once this is done, re-open the tap(s) and then plug in the filter. It will grind and chug for a few moments and then start... If you get silence (typical with a Fluval), gently kick it to free the impeller jam
With water in the pipes, simple make sure the outlet hose is above the waterline of the tank and re-open your taps. The filter will sort itself then... Once it stops gurgeling, the thing is ready to plug in again
All the best
Rabbut
Priming methods vary from filter to filter. Fluvals, Eheim classics and Pro1's all need "manually" priming IME (Don't bother with the Fluval priming pump, it's more trouble than it's worth). This is where you set-up the inlet pipe in the tank and fully plumb up. Then you take the outlet off the back and position it over a bucket. Suck hard for a second or two and then place the outlet into the bucket. The filter will now start to prime. Wait for the water to come through the outlet and start to fill the bucket (this can take a few minuites). Once the bucket is nearly full, close the tap(s) and re-hang the outlet on the back of the tank. Once this is done, re-open the tap(s) and then plug in the filter. It will grind and chug for a few moments and then start... If you get silence (typical with a Fluval), gently kick it to free the impeller jam
With water in the pipes, simple make sure the outlet hose is above the waterline of the tank and re-open your taps. The filter will sort itself then... Once it stops gurgeling, the thing is ready to plug in again
All the best
Rabbut
OP
OP
Truck
UKAPS
awesome thanks
60 litre, 1300 litres of flow, quite densely planted. i know its alot
no in the new tank im reducing filter flow to 400 LPH but tank flow (water movement) will be at around 1250 LPH for the plants,
its important for the filtration pump to be slower for better filtration ( the water inside the filter is unaffected by water movement in the tank, hope this makes sense
no in the new tank im reducing filter flow to 400 LPH but tank flow (water movement) will be at around 1250 LPH for the plants,
its important for the filtration pump to be slower for better filtration(longer contact time = more efficient filtration!) ( the water inside the filter is unaffected by water movement in the tank), hope this makes sense
OMG its another one of those complicated hardware things I don't understand!! How do you reduce the filter flow to 400 but keep the tank flow at 1250?
problem with this is, how have you decided the flow of your filter? if you have used the box the filter came with. chuck it away, it has very little to do with the actual flow of the filter. as a "rough" rule of thumb, the actual flow of filters is between 40-60% of that stated on the box.
my Eheim 2224 has a pump rating of 700lph, and a filter flow of 500lph. these are Eheims figures. I am assuming the "real" flow is around 350-400lph. so roughly 2-2.2x turnover. my Hydor prime 30 has a pump rating of 900lph ( hydor measure their filters with no media fitted) so using the same rule of thumb, 450-600lph. so, about 3.3x. so in total i have, in theory, 5.5x turnover. but if you add the figures from the boxes, it should be close to 9x.
Jimbo1984
Fish Crazy
Hi all. I have a Juwel Rio 125. I run the filter with 2 coarse and 2 fine sponges with a poly pad on top, changed weekly at water changes. I also have a filter bag full of Seachem Phosguard that sits inbetween the 2 sponge holders. I've found this to be very effective. All I want to know is whether anyone's had to change the coarse and fine sponges and why? Mine are getting clogged quite quickly these days. They've been in use for over 2 years.
OP
OP
Truck
UKAPS
i never use sponges, i use ceramic media much better
rabbut
I don't bite, all that often...
I have had my old Record 98 returned over the weekend (Been in use by a friend for the last year or so). It's still running with all origional blue sponges, 7 years after first being put into service. 2 year old sponges should have plenty of life left in them yet
Jimbo1984
Fish Crazy
Interesting...
I'll just give them a good few squeezes!
I'll just give them a good few squeezes!
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