Fishless Cycle Almost Complete Few More Questions

[Jeff Lange]

Opps, I meant in my post above that I removed the Bio-Chem last night after I saw your posts. I moved some of the ceramic media to the top baskets 2ed area. Now I have 20/30 PPI foam sponges in bottom basket the way they came. Ceramic in the second basket and the bio chem stars above them in the 2ed part of basket. The Top basket has more ceramic media in bottom with the Micron pad at the top. So I think I have it right ? If I need to add med or some other media later I can just remove the ceramic in the lower part of the top basket and put in carbon or whatever I need I guess.

 

[waterdrop]

Jeff,

I agree with rabbut that you are underestimating the time it might take to have a large bacterial growth in the new Rena XP3. While it should proceed rapidly since the 350 is there supplying the presence of the right two species in the tank, the time it takes for new populations to anchor on the brand new media in the XP3 is unpredictable. On top of that it would be hard to actually know whether it has happened or not, since the test results you look at are a result of the combined work of both filters. You will just have to wait some set time like 4 weeks and then be prepared for a potential mini-cycle or worse when you remove the 350 from the tank.

If you removed 50% of your carbon, which if I remember right is serving as your only bio-anchor, you may experience some faltering in your fishless cycling process, although it sounds like you are still getting down to zero in some unstated amount of time.

You said: "Will keep adding ammonia, not sure how long or when it may be safe to add fish."
This should be clear from your reading off the RDD article and your participation here - you are always watching to see whether, when you add 4-5ppm of ammonia, your filter system can process both ammonia and nitrites down to 0ppm within 10-12 hours and then repeatedly do that for a week before the end where you change out all the water and stock the new fish.

Concerning the new XP3 output, I wouldn't hesitate to experiment repeatedly with the spray bar or other such that you get the flow very parallel to the surface. You will eventually find a sweet spot where you get maximum surface movement with minimum noise and as long as you promise yourself not to miss good water changes, I see nothing wrong with topping up a small amount of water occassionally to offset evaporation and keep your surface quiet. Of course this advice is mostly for after fish, as currently you are probably agitating with airstones and have more noise from that.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Jeff Lange]

Agreed Waterdrop.
I think I will just keep putting ammonia in for next 10 days to 2 weeks and monitor the process like I did when the Magnum 350 was in it by itself.
I am sure it will take a bit to get a biological load into the new canister filter.
I plan on keeping both set up in tank for a month or two working in unison with each other. I did replace 50% of the Carbon media from the Magnum 350 last night and replaced it with new carbon. I also squeezed the dirty filter pad that was around the Carbon Media Contaner in the same aquarium water ( Wow was it dirty. Turned the water in my bucket black ). the readings I got this morning did show 0 ammonia , 0 nitrite but could be innacurate since I replaced 1/2 of the Magnums media so will keep adding the ammonia daily and see if it processes.
Again, Plans now are not to add fish for at least 10 days or longer and I am sure I will re-post before I do to inquire as to what everyone thinks. Really depends on my readings.
One note though is that the Rena xp3 filter is much easier to clean and change media then the Magnum 350. ( 100 % easier )

 

[waterdrop]

Yes I remember looking at the pictures of the Magnum and thinking it looked so different from the majority of cannisters all talked about here esp. on hardware forum. I wondered at the time whether it was somehow more expensive and better than the common ones but it seems you feel it was somehow a bit the other way around?

I continue to wonder whether the Magnum might make a great water "polisher" all filled with polyfloss - there was something about your being able to do that, right?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Jeff Lange]

Yes I remember looking at the pictures of the Magnum and thinking it looked so different from the majority of cannisters all talked about here esp. on hardware forum. I wondered at the time whether it was somehow more expensive and better than the common ones but it seems you feel it was somehow a bit the other way around?

I continue to wonder whether the Magnum might make a great water "polisher" all filled with polyfloss - there was something about your being able to do that, right?

~~waterdrop~~

yea, from all I have read it is a great polisher. ( After the fact of course ) After my tank re-cycles, cycles or whatever I plan on making the change and swapping the carbon container back to the micron filter for polishing. Don't know maybe I will run it 2 days a week or so not sure yet. From all I have read the XP3 accomplishes this as well. With both canisters running the water flow is a bit strong I am guessing for some fish. With the XP3 alone the current should be ok.

 

[waterdrop]

Fish vary all over the place with respect to flow. Some like it really fast, a few anyway. Its plants that generally don't like it. Plants vary too but I think in general, as a lot, they prefer more peaceful conditions.

I think sometimes even quite good cannisters are not great polishers. Unless you were to go in and clog up part of it with some intense polyfloss, perhaps. Higher flow rates and greater polishing filtration work against each other.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Jeff Lange]

Well, It's been 4 days now with the new XP3 running with my Magnum. I did change 50 percent of the Carbon media out of the Magnum 350 and replaced it with new carbon. I plan on running both the Magnum and the Rena XP3 for 1 1/2 to 2 months together to make sure the XP3 builds a biological load. Still adding approx 4 ppm of ammonia every morning. Readings have still been the same since the day I added the new XP3 in tandum with my Magnum 350.

Ammonia 0 after 10-12 hours
Nitrite 0 under 24 hours somewhere. It is not 0 after 10-12 hours but it is 0 each morning.
Nitrate 40-80 Still there, I never got the 180 ppm readings some got in the forum threads
PH 7.6 Thanks for the sock and baking soda tips. Have not had to repeat since the 1st treatment

I am thinking if this continues maybe Friday / Sat ( 4 or 5 days from now ) Already been 4 days with both pumps/filters working side by side. Will I be safe to transfer my current fish from my 28 gallon to my 65 gallon. Will of course do a 90% water change and reduce temp to what the 28 gallon was.

3 - Angel Fish - medium
2- Clown Loach
2- Albino Coreys will probably be adding 4 more to make 6 as recomended earlier.
2- Von Rio's ( giving them to LFS as I think they are too small and don't get enough to eat with the Angels )

What do you all think if my above testing peramiters continue? Can I move the fish to the 65 gallon safely ?


Oh, The 50 % carbon media change was done 4 days ago when I added the XP3.
Is there any way to edit these posts after they are done ? I don't see an edit tab here ?
Save me from posting something I forgot to mention in above post.

 

[waterdrop]

This shouldn't matter if you decide to get fish in 4 or 5 days, but if you don't get fish and continue to fishless cycle longer, don't forget to continue to monitor the KH. Even though you are happy with your pH now, if the KH gets down to 4 or 3 then its time to think about taking action with some more baking soda as the final drop of KH and pH can be pretty fast.

Hopefully your nitrite processing time will continue to creep down and adding the fish will be fine. I would think that if it (the nitrite processing) is getting below 1 and approaching zero at 12 hours and you are planning a medium stocking load (sounds like it, not too low or too high) then you should be fine for the big day.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Jeff Lange]

This shouldn't matter if you decide to get fish in 4 or 5 days, but if you don't get fish and continue to fishless cycle longer, don't forget to continue to monitor the KH. Even though you are happy with your pH now, if the KH gets down to 4 or 3 then its time to think about taking action with some more baking soda as the final drop of KH and pH can be pretty fast.

Hopefully your nitrite processing time will continue to creep down and adding the fish will be fine. I would think that if it (the nitrite processing) is getting below 1 and approaching zero at 12 hours and you are planning a medium stocking load (sounds like it, not too low or too high) then you should be fine for the big day.

~~waterdrop~~

Yea, just wanted to make sure if my water paramiters continue what the thoughts were of adding my fish to my 65 gallon? If it was safe or not ? Of Course I will continue to use both filters / Canisters for some time.
Yea, Nitrite is usually at .25-.50 in 10-12 hours when I re-test ammonia and Nitrite in the evenings, just not that 0 which shows up every morning after 22-24 hours. Of course the Ammonia is always 0 after 10-12 hours. Again I do plan on keeping both filters going for some time, maybe I will not take the Magnum out as many here in the forum seem to keep 2 filters going at the same time. Eventually i can use the micron polishing cartride with the Magnum and not the Carbon after I am sure the XP3 has sufficient biological load. But until 2 months or so I will use the Carbon Basket and Carbon on the Magnum until I am sure the XP3 has been in there long enough. I think my fish load is low for the 65 gallon but I will keep it there with the exception of adding a few more corey's to the mix, to have a total of 6. My current/ jet stream is just below the water level and making waves on the surface as I have it pointed up a little to errigate the top with both filters little noisy and not as silent as they would be if completely submerged. Seems to be good current below too as the fake plants seem to move with the current.

 

[rabbut]

I'd think it is safe to add the fish Whenever I change filters, I run them alongside the old one for a month, then I remove 1/4 of the media each week for the next four weeks. This encorages the bacteria to move into the new filter. Obviously stop media removal if you see any ammonia or nitrite

HTH
Rabbut

 

[waterdrop]

Yeah, good that rabbut is on board.. I would think with that smaller initial fish load for a 65 that your bacteria will probably drop back a little anyway, so that fact that the Nbacs are not quite there shouldn't matter and it should be safe for fish.

Also, rabbut's idea about slowly dropping the magnum media back by 1/4 amounts gives me the idea of just stuffing polyfloss in the space created by removing bits of the carbon. You could be getting a taste of it beginning to be a polisher. You could even do it in smaller fractions than 1/4 depending on how it feels when you get in the magnum and have the poly there to work with - this might work well with your plans to take plenty of time with the transition anyway.

I don't see how you can go wrong with this plan as long as your tests show the combined filters continuing to drop both toxins to zero in 12 hours despite the original bio-material (the carbon in your case) being gradually removed - that will have to mean that the new filter is gaining load and taking over.

~~waterdrop~~