Fishiewishie Rides Again

[FishyWishie]

Thought it was prob time I did a update on how things are going.

Tank no 1 (Fluval Roma 240L) is coming along nicely I did lose some Rasborra ( The remainder have been put in a hospital tank but are still going to fishy heaven every few days)I've since learned the breeder I got them from has really bad rep in the local trade and doesnt quarentine properly So i'm not beating myself up about it Poor quality fish coupled with a relatively immature filter isn't a good combo) (Water Stats have been perfect since initial stocking and if anything im to good at water change %: The rest of the tank are doing well though no illness or deaths.

Current occupants

8 Khuli Loaches
4 Pepper Corydoras
4 Triline Corydoras
12 Diamond Tetra

On saturday I pick up 2 Bolivian Rams and 6 Golden Wonder Killifish (I only use 1 LFS now it won runner up in PFK magazine for Scotland)

My betta got to stressed in the community tank and got a touch of sticky fins so he now inhabits his own 40 L tropical wonderland and with some Melafix and Aquarium Salts he's back to tip top condition

I've also infected my fiancee with the fish keeping bug we ordered a Fluval Osaka 155 L as she has decided she wants a guppy tank (We may look at a few bottom dwellers such as Cory's) but the rest of the tank will be guppies. Not necessarily my choice but she paid for my setup and Amos's Tank (My betta)

Theres also a space in the living room ive earmarked for a 100-120 L tank for after xmas

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Fishy, how many of those six Golden Wonders are male? I really hope you are going to reply no more than two... and even that could be dodgy if one of them is a weak male!

Line of sight barriers from plants and other tank furniture should help male vs male agression, as well as male vs female harrassing.

 

[FishyWishie]

As far as I know its 1 male 5 females but I will double check that when we go to get them. Tank has many areas to hide in and is well planted but I will be sure to make 100% sure of the ratio before purchase.

 

[OldMan47]

Watch that infection of your fiance for any festering that may occur .

We do not want to find that any fish are being threatened by assumptions that you are making. I would keep a close eye on those "poor quality" rasboras in your tank. Although a local breeder of fish may be less than optimal, that never excuses me from providing proper care for the resulting fish. You may be surprised at how well those fish can do when they are given the proper care. I often buy " pet shop quality" guppies from my LFS that have a life expectancy in my tanks of maybe a few weeks by all accounts. What I find, contrary to popular belief, is that the fish do not only survive but thrive in my tanks because I give them proper care. Unfortunately, many people are far too ready to blame fish losses on the quality of the fish they have received without recognizing the effect that their own care can have on those same fish. I am a cheap b******d, call me a cheap SOB, so I do my best to help my newly acquired fish survive. The end result is that quite often my new,"poor quality" fish survive and end up thriving. That leaves me in the position of providing robust fish to the next club auction as "premium fish" with a strong recent health profile. There is really nothing special about these fish except that I have decided that they darned well will survive and thrive in my tanks. As they demonstrate the ability to do just exactly that, they make themselves invaluable in the local trade as superior fish.

I never make believe that there is anything out of the ordinary with my fish and make no claims at the auctions, but the ones derived from "inferior stock" at the LFS are often very much in demand because they have received proper care in my tanks. Please give your "poor quality" fish the care that they deserve and see if they do not reward you in the same way.

 

[waterdrop]

ok, I'm rais'in one to the topic of "thrift" tonight

 

[FishyWishie]

OldMan47 theres not really any other assumption I can draw than them being poor stock Ive had 0 deaths of any of the other species in the tank my water results (tested daily) have never been anything other than 0 for ammonia and nitrite and nitrates have been kept at 20 or under with water changes. The fish are well fed on a variety of foods flakes, dried bloodworms and frozen foods and excess food removed if not eaten after 5 mins.

The rasborra were not from a LFS i picked them up from a breeders home the breeder concerned ive since found out has constantly opened and closed fish businesses over last few years so hes either dodging tax or his reputation.

If you can think of a reason why only the rasborra have died and why its not every day but about every 48-60 hours then im all ears believe me. Ive even tried doing a water change daily for about 5 days and they still passed away in 2's or 3's about every 2nd or 3rd day. They have no signs of illness that I can see and they dont sit at the bottom or gasp at the surface for air. I'm really not sure what else I can be doing that im not already.

 

[FishyWishie]

Bump an informative post OldMan47 but light on specifics you mention a few times about the great care you provide yet don't mention what this is.

"Unfortunately, many people are far too ready to blame fish losses on the quality of the fish they have received without recognizing the effect that their own care can have on those same fish."

I'd welcome clarification on this I may not have your years of experience but i've been meticulous in my testing of all water aspects PH/Ammonia/Nitrtite/Nitrate and in observation of disease and any other fish difficulty Im on top of my water changes my tank is not overstocked and the temperature is monitored. If theres something in 'good care' which im not doing Ill be the first to alter my care routine.

The Rasborra have died with weekly water changes and also daily water changes I vacum the substrate every water change and more often if I notice particular areas of sand looking messy I trim and remove any and all dead leaves. Nothing else in the tank is dieing and the Rasborra are showing no signs of illness prior to death. As I said in my prev post a variety of food types are provided and the Rasborra appear to enjoy them all excess food is promptly removed if any.

Would you able expand on which aspects of 'good care' you feel I am lacking atm if any?

 

[waterdrop]

Oh, perhaps I haven't read it closely and I certainly can't speak for OM, but I doubt he was thinking of you specifically at all. I think he was just reminding me and all the rest of us not to use the genetics thing to mentally let ourselves off the hook for doing good maintenance. And I think by mainenance he mostly means frequent gravel-clean-water-changes. It sounds (without me going back and questioning it closely) like you're doing that sort of thing and thus I don't think the statement was aimed at your maintenance. I don't think anybody has any real idea why you've lost female guppies and not other fish. Random chance is just that, random, sometimes.

WD

 

[FishyWishie]

I havent picked the guppies up yet there for the new tank thats been ordered. Its the Harlequin Rasborra that have been dieing Apologies if I took the post the wrong way but it's been frustrating thinking you have it cracked with no Rasborra deaths in 3 days then to lose 3 in 48 hours pattern seems so random with no explanation. In total 12 of the 24 Rasborra have gone both in the main tank and in the hospital tank.

I change 30% water weekly (my aquadvisor recomendation is 22%) so if anything I change a little more than reqd I even tried doing a 15% water change 5 days running and the Rasborra still died at the same approximate rate.

 

[waterdrop]

Sorry Fishy, I clearly should have just stayed out of it unless I had the time to pull together your different threads and make sense of the story. WD

 

[FishyWishie]

No worries WD I welcome any and all opinions on the matter my other threads don't really have much else to add The tank after cycling had the Diamonds and the Loaches added 2 weeks later I added the Cory and 2 weeks after that the Rasborra. The Rasborra were ok for about 4 or 5 days then started dieing but not every day and never any more than 2 at a time.

Water stats have been spot on since stocking day 1 and even water changes everyday hasn't altered the deaths.

I've actually seen one die it was swimming along happily back and forward then all of a sudden it stopped and floated to the surface dead no gasping no rubbing and no signs of anything wrong (aside from being dead obviously)

Aside from this the tank is doing really well plants are thriving and the diamond tetras and corys are getting nicer colouring by the day Loaches are ok too tho I dont see them much during the day but at night they love to play.

WD, I hope you didn't think I suggested you should stay out my thread ? I value your and OM47 opinions extremely highly.

My other threads dont really have a lot to add to the situation sadly there had been no fish deaths untill the Rasborra were added and to this day its only the Rasborra that have died. Last week i tried doing a 15-20% water change and gravel vac every single day and the death pattern remained similar no deaths 2 days running and never more than 2 in 48 hrs.

The Rasborra have nice colouring there not at surface gasping or rubbing and to my untrained eye they look very happy. The fish were adding at 2 week intervals and ive been monitoring water stats like a hawk. The breeder I got them from apparently ships them in in vast quantities from a European distributor and stores them in overstocked tanks shipping them out as quickly as he can (My regular LFS knew exactly who I meant with me only mentioning the town there based in)

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Hi fishiwishie - I'm really glad the betta is doing better in his new home and the rest of your fish are doing well.

While I can totally appreciate the general point OM is making about low quality stock I can find no other explanation for your deaths and from your previous posts you seem to be doing everything right.

Xx

 

[OldMan47]

Let me try to answer FishieWishie's unstated question.
I am afraid the care I give my fish might be called minimal by some fish keeping extremists. My fish get regular feedings that are "generous" by most standards and get water changes when it occurs to me to do one. That is not superior care in anyone's book but it often results in my "inferior stock" showing robust good health. The only conclusion I can draw is that I do not give up on my fish. If I see something about them that suggests that they need an extra water change, they get one. If I think they are hungry, not just greedy, they get more food. I cannot put my finger on why my fish do so well, but they often do, and it is a big enough difference that club members with lots of experience think there is something special about my fish. I would probably be embarrassed if they ever found out how seldom I do the things that are well accepted in the modern day hobby, like water changes for unstressed fish. I do water changes on rare occasions except those dictated by what I see in my fish.

OK so what do I do that those other people don't do? The question is something I find hard to define.

I watch my fish a few minutes daily and I am very aware of what healthy fish look like. What that means in practical terms is that I quickly recognize when things are not going well in a tank. Whenever I suspect a problem, I do my best to evaluate it and decide what I ought to be doing to correct it. I am certainly not a disease expert by any means, so my evaluation methods seldom look for possible diseases. Instead I look for a need for a different feed or a water change. If I think a water change may be called for, I do a 90% or larger one, why not? A large water change is almost always beneficial to the fish and causes far less stress than poor water quality. If I feel there may be a food quality problem, that presents far more possible solutions. The first thing I will usually do is look at the other tanks receiving the same food. If all but one tank is thriving, I may nevertheless try another food for that tank. If things improve dramatically, I will pat myself on the back and move on. If the new food does nothing to help, I will continue to research the food needs of the fish involved and try to match those needs the best that I can.
I can offer no magic here. By many standards, I am a mediocre fish keeper with unusual good luck caring for my fish. The only thing I seem to have going for me is an ability to judge what it is about my present situation that is deficient / inadequate and I am willing to follow my own evaluation as if it were gospel. That means that my fish often get some form of attention that the "expert" fish keepers would not advise but that my gut tells me is the right response to what I have seen. When things work out for me it is called luck or, more sensitively, a fortuitous evaluation. I will not apologize for my guesses on fish care. They work for my fish even when I am "wrong".

 

[BigIan]

Have you ever read Diana walsteads ecology of the planted aquarium OM?

I think you may enjoy it

 

[waterdrop]

Have you ever read Diana walsteads ecology of the planted aquarium OM?

I think you may enjoy it

Hi Ian, I'll go out on a limb and include him in saying that yes, both of us have read her book through and personally I also pull it out on and off as a reference book for various things. Diana lives here in my town and I've had the chance to chat with her at a couple of society meetings but its only been in passing. As a freshwater hobbyist I often feel hungry for more in-depth reading but books that get as detailed as hers are few and far between.

When I get to the stage of life where the kids are going off and getting married, like OM talks about, its one of my dreams to have a tank using the Walstad method and another having the high-tech method, or at least one real planted tank! For now I have to settle for close observation of some low-light techniques in my son's tanks and reserve my energy for family activities, which keep the days quite busy!

There's at least one UK aquarium magazine writer that I know who has admitted to me that he pulls her book out at times to re-read a chapter and enjoy re-thinking the topic for another round. Any book that stands up to that over time is a pleasure to have. I've currently picked up an old book that is an in-depth look at the ecology of the Chesapeake Bay and hope to have time to read it and see how some of the details compare with some of the things I've learned from Diana.

WD