Fish-less Update, And Ph Question

rgrrmg

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So I'm on day 20 on my 12 Gal. tank here are the levels at 24 hrs.:

Ammonia:0ppm
Nitrite:0ppm
Nitrates:~50-80ppm

My PH keeps crashing down to ~6.4, then I add about 0.25 Tsp. baking soda bringing it to about 7.6ppm, 24 hrs. later it's back down to 6.4.

Do I do a water change as my tap water PH is 7.5, and if so how much, 25%?
Any help would be appreciated.
 
i'm curious to see what a regular would say about this. it sounds to me like a good water change would work. i think i read somewhere that nitrates lower pH. i would even do 75% but again dont take my advice, i'm just a newbie and just speculating!
 
i'm curious to see what a regular would say about this. it sounds to me like a good water change would work. i think i read somewhere that nitrates lower pH. i would even do 75% but again dont take my advice, i'm just a newbie and just speculating!
I'm also curious as to what a regular would say...
 
I'm also curious as to what a regular would say...

is there something wrong with me commenting in your thread? even if it doesnt provide you with a solution you need?
No, I was merely agreeing with you that it would be nice to hear what a regular has to say about it.
And you are probably correct in your advice.
 
your nitrate level is much high...try to cut it down,do 50-60% water change in an alternate day...
 
I'm also curious as to what a regular would say...

is there something wrong with me commenting in your thread? even if it doesnt provide you with a solution you need?
I usually feel the more discussion the better! Always happy to have new members and I hope you feel welcome JustFrozen. I think one of the best ways to learn is to participate in other people's threads.

When fishless cycling, "percentage" water changes have no meaning. Aquarists use "partial" water changes as a means of lowering mineral or temperature shock to fish. Our bacteria have no such sensitivity, at least not such that we need to worry about it. So I always say to change as much as you can, right down to the gravel, although in practice I like to "cheat" and leave my cannister filter running, so I don't go below the intake grid. But anytime you bother to do a water change during fishless, its better to do absolutely as much as you can. In most cases you are raising the pH, raising the KH, putting more calcium and iron in there and clearing out both nitrites and nitrates, neither of which help a fishless cycle. The trade-off is that a water change will sometimes cause a "pause" in the processing the bacteria are doing, usually not more than a day or two and often you don't see any pause at all.

The reason you want nitrates out of there is because when NO3 is in solution, a small but fixed percentage of it will be in the form of nitric acid, which is very acidic and is the thing that causes pH to potentially drop whenever nitrification is occurring at a high rate. Depending on the buffering (the KH level) the acid will be more or less able to "move" your pH.

rgrrmg, your problem is that you are not putting enough baking soda in. During fishless cycling, the water is meant to be your "bacterial growing soup" and there is little or no concern about what it will be like later with fish. So there's no harm in dumping in the baking soda, as the excess sodium (which is one of the negatives of it) will be dumped out with the big water change prior to switching your whole system over and getting fish. So I'd dose the baking soda at a rate of an entire tablespoon (3 teaspoons) per 50L of tank volume. That way, your KH should get right on up there and you can then use it as a "leading indicator"... when it works its way down to KH=4 or below then you know you're in danger of the pH crashing and you need to dose it up again.

~~waterdrop~~
 
I'm also curious as to what a regular would say...

is there something wrong with me commenting in your thread? even if it doesnt provide you with a solution you need?
I usually feel the more discussion the better! Always happy to have new members and I hope you feel welcome JustFrozen. I think one of the best ways to learn is to participate in other people's threads.

When fishless cycling, "percentage" water changes have no meaning. Aquarists use "partial" water changes as a means of lowering mineral or temperature shock to fish. Our bacteria have no such sensitivity, at least not such that we need to worry about it. So I always say to change as much as you can, right down to the gravel, although in practice I like to "cheat" and leave my cannister filter running, so I don't go below the intake grid. But anytime you bother to do a water change during fishless, its better to do absolutely as much as you can. In most cases you are raising the pH, raising the KH, putting more calcium and iron in there and clearing out both nitrites and nitrates, neither of which help a fishless cycle. The trade-off is that a water change will sometimes cause a "pause" in the processing the bacteria are doing, usually not more than a day or two and often you don't see any pause at all.

The reason you want nitrates out of there is because when NO3 is in solution, a small but fixed percentage of it will be in the form of nitric acid, which is very acidic and is the thing that causes pH to potentially drop whenever nitrification is occurring at a high rate. Depending on the buffering (the KH level) the acid will be more or less able to "move" your pH.

rgrrmg, your problem is that you are not putting enough baking soda in. During fishless cycling, the water is meant to be your "bacterial growing soup" and there is little or no concern about what it will be like later with fish. So there's no harm in dumping in the baking soda, as the excess sodium (which is one of the negatives of it) will be dumped out with the big water change prior to switching your whole system over and getting fish. So I'd dose the baking soda at a rate of an entire tablespoon (3 teaspoons) per 50L of tank volume. That way, your KH should get right on up there and you can then use it as a "leading indicator"... when it works its way down to KH=4 or below then you know you're in danger of the pH crashing and you need to dose it up again.

~~waterdrop~~
Thanks WD, So would be just as well if I did a 25% water change or should I increase the baking soda dose?

Thanks
RGR
 
I'd suggest on the weekend doing a 90% water change and recharging the ammonia and dosing the baking soda to 1T. per 50L. Then check the ammonia, KH and pH about an hour later and note it in your aquarium notebook log.

~~waterdrop~~
 
I'd suggest on the weekend doing a 90% water change and recharging the ammonia and dosing the baking soda to 1T. per 50L. Then check the ammonia, KH and pH about an hour later and note it in your aquarium notebook log.

~~waterdrop~~
Thanks WD, decided to do the water change this morning...I will post the levels later this morning.

Thanks.
 
I don't understand. Did you recharge the ammonia to 4-5ppm and then a bunch of time went by (if so, how many hours?) or did you not recharge the ammonia?

Have you considered getting a liquid KH test kit?

~~waterdrop~~
 

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