Fish-Less Cycle

[dissimulo]

Right, all seems to be kicking off. [font="arial][size="2"]Below is my log so far.[/size][/font]
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[color="#222222"][font="arial][size="2"]As you can see, the pH balance has continued to drop and has now 'crashed'. Also, NitrAtes have increased in correspondence to the drop in NitrItes; suggesting I've entered phase 3. Should I continue to dose with the usual amount of Ammonia (to 3 ppm) as well as add the required amount of baking soda? I could really use some advice right now.[/size][/font]
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[color="#222222"][font="arial][size="2"]Cheers,[/size][/font]
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[color="#222222"][font="arial][size="2"]Luke.[/size][/font]

 

[Gvilleguy]

That is really good - it looks like you have definitely entered phase 3! Looks like a quick cycle so far. You want keep dosing ammonia, and, of course, get it so that both ammonia and nitrites are getting to zero within 12 hours. You can add baking soda as needed to keep the pH up. Whenever my pH would crash to zero, the cycle would also stall. So it's not a problem to keep adding more during the fishless phase.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, to get 3 signs (nitrite drop, nitrate rise and pH crash) at once is a very good sign that you may be entering phase 3 soon.

Fishless Cycling is not characterized by large daily water changes like Fish-In cycling can be. Still, its pretty common for us to perform "kick-start" water changes for various reasons on occasion during the fishless cycle. You're now at the most common of those, a pH crash. Its time for a 90% water change ("percentage" water changes have no meaning in fishless cycling because anything less than a full change is just something for the fish themselves. During fishless cycling its best to just change all the water down to the substrate, remembering to turn off your heater and filter as necessary.)

The purpose of your water change will be to bring in water of much higher pH and with higher mineral content (your water is low in carbonate hardness and the new tap water will refresh some of this.) At the same time other good things will happen. You'll be removing a lot of that high nitrate(NO3) which, while a sign of good N-Bac activity, is also something that will inhibit their growth! When you refill the tank, dose it back up to 3ppm ammonia still. If your N-Bacs later prove themselves in phase 3 by quickly lowering nitrite to zero within 24 hours then we'll know its time to ease the dosing back upward toward 4 and 5ppm, but as of right now we're not sure of that yet.

You can choose to dose the baking soda now at the levels I mentioned or you can not do it and see what the water change accomplishes. Its a good learning experience and you might want to see your nitrogen cycle in action without the added complication of the baking soda and see if your chart shows a similar 3 signs again as its just done. Either way, you're in great shape and hopefully this is a sign of a pretty fast fishless cycle, although you can't predict what will happen in the 3rd phase.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[dissimulo]

I'm afraid I opted for the baking soda method last night, amidst a mad flurry of web browsing. My parents are very strict and somewhat old fashioned in their approach to all things interesting so I won't be able to do a water change during my cycle, besides the large one at the end. I added roughly 5 tsps (4.8 to be finicky) of baking soda to my tank, as well as the usual dosage of Ammonia at 3 ppm. I did the best I could.

I'm going to wait until 17:45:00 this afternoon to run any tests but I expect things to be back on track. E.g. Ammonia to be at 0 ppm, NitrItes to be between 0 and 0.25 ppm and NitrAtes to be 80+ ppm. On top of hopefully having pH/HR pH readings of 7.6/8+.

Cheers,

Luke.

 

[waterdrop]

I don't understand. Are your parents following along with the fishless cycling details and interested in it? WD

 

[dissimulo]

A little bit, I was being sarcastic though. What I mean is they have fairly old fashioned values, such that the method I've chosen to set up my tank (carrying out a fish-less cycle using a test kit and Ammonia) is to them deemed a farce. You see, when they were children, "you just filled the thing with water and chucked a few fish in." Meaning I'm not allowed to faff about doing "unnecessary" water changes.

That aside, was I right in what I did? With regards to adding baking soda and continuing to dose with Ammonia etc.


Cheers,

Luke.

 

[OldMan47]

If you have stabilized your pH, the baking soda was the right thing to try. I also had fish when we just dumped fish into some tap water and hoped for the best. Actually, even way back 50 years ago, we knew better than to dump fish into water that was full of chlorine but we dechlorinated by letting the water sit out over night before using it in the tank with fish. I remember clearly losing a few fish along the way during the first few months that were replaced by simply buying new fish since they were so cheap. Back in those days I also brought home wild frogs from local creeks and managed to keep them alive a few months or so. Today we no longer lose fish because we understand better what is going on in the water. If I bring home 50 fish for 3 new tanks, I expect each and every one of them to survive and thrive. That was not the case with any fish 50 years ago. We have learned a lot in that time about the actual needs of our fish.

 

[dissimulo]

Below is my log so far.

So, the pH balance has stabilised, Ammonia and NitrItes are dropping in 24 hours or less and NitrAtes are sky high. Might it be time to begin 12 hourly testing? Also, is now the time start upping my Ammonia dosage?

Old Man, I totally appreciate what you say. I like to relate things to the ideas that surround technology in that its ever increasing rate of succession mean it is necessary to use its produce to kind of keep with the times. From an enthusiasts perspective, we have resources such as home test kits and household Ammonia widely available to us now which perhaps weren't x years ago. Combine this with the increased understanding of microbiological science, I find my undertaking of such procedure to be totally relevant. Sorry for talking gobbledygook, it made sense in my mind.

Cheers,

Luke.

 

[waterdrop]

More or less indentical to my own experiences OM. Besides lots of amphibians and reptiles, I used to bring home beautiful minnows from our ice skating pond. I could never keep those minnows alive for very long. I would love to know whether it would be a different story now, or what other parameters would have been important to them besides the zero ammonia and nitrite that I would give them these days. WD

 

[dissimulo]

When should I start 12 hourly testing? And increasing the dosage of Ammonia?

Cheers,

Luke.

 

[OldMan47]

You are definitely ready to start 12 hour checks on your progress but you never do go to 12 hour dosing. It is also time to start bringing the dosage back to 4 or 5 ppm ammonia each time.

 

[Gvilleguy]

Yes - I was not clear on that the first time around: dose only every 24 hours, but test every 12 hours.

 

[waterdrop]

Agree with the others, time for 12 and 4, so to speak.

I not only agree with your paragraph about keeping up with the times but have to add that I think communication plays the biggest role of all. When I was first in the hobby there was only the lone guy at my little fish shop and a couple of big hardback books that I read each night. If I'd had the equivalent of this forum back then I'm sure there would have been any number of experienced fishkeepers who could have taught me better habits. For that matter, wouldn't it be lovely if the fish scientists didn't live off in their own juried-by-peers journals all the time but dropped in to places like ours sometimes.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[dissimulo]

Oh I know not to do 12 hour doses, only ever 24. As of this afternoon I'll bump the Ammonia dosage back up to 5 ppm.

However, I regret to remind you that I'm away for a few days (Wednesday morning till Friday evening). Obviously this is going to hinder my routine in that: A) I won't be able to dose with Ammonia, and B) I won't yet be able to proceed with 12 hour testing. Any ideas as to how I can tackle this issue?

Waterdrop, I agree. +1 to the Internet!

Cheers,

Luke.

 

[Gvilleguy]

If no one can easily step in for you, I would not worry about the couple of days where you can't do anything.