Fish In Tank Cycling/showing The Big Three What Now/

[nut4clife]

Hi all,
A few have responded to previous posts and my many errors.  Finally after many changes I'm finally showing (week 6) the big three: Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate.  These are the results of the last five days:
11/1/13 5:00 p.m.  Ammonia 3ppm; Nitrite 0.0ppm;  Nitrate 0.0ppm; 20 gal water (8ml Stress Coat added) change with gravel cleaning; Aquarium Rock Salt 2 tablespoons; Stress Zyme+ 20ml.
11/5/13 6:00 p.m.  Ammonia 2ppm; Nitrite .50 ppm; Nitrate (showing) 0-5ppm; Water (Stress Coat 5ml added) change 10gl
11/5/13 10:00 p.m. Ammonia 1ppm; Nitrite 1ppm; Nitrate 3-5ppm
11/7/13 6:30 p.m. Ammonia 1ppm; Nitrite 2ppm; Nitrate 5ppm
 
Ammonia is stabilizing at 1ppm with Nitrite increasing to 2ppm and Nitrate firmly at 5ppm! 
 
I have artificial substrate and plants; 8 Tiger Barbs & 1 Plec
 
What is my next move?  Thanks.
 
View attachment 71994

 

[Fishmanic]

disregard my last post as I forgot you are doing a fish-in cycle
 
I think you have to do a partial water change at this point to get the ammonia and nitrites down---probably at least a 50% change---maybe someone else can chime in on this
 
a fishless cycle is what I did and I recommend it for anyone looking to cycle their tank

 

[TwoTankAmin]

What you should do is one of two things. Buy viable bottled bacteria or find enough donated media et.c from cycled tanks to get your tank instantly, or close to instantly, cycled. Failing this you should rehome the fish with friends or return them to the store for credit telling them you will return for them when you complete your cycle without fish.

 

[nut4clife]

TTA and/or other readers,
It's to late to return my pets to the pet store and I'm new at this so I haven't and don't know anyone with a cycled tank in my area that could keep my pets for a period of time. Another option I have at my disposal is an unused 10 gal aquarium. I need a filter & media, air supply equipment, substrate & plants(?) to start. This could be to either cycle faster and to provide temporary home for pets until the larger tank is cycled fishless or vise versa. Your thoughts on this? Below is the latest readings and actions since 11/7...

11/9 4:30 Ammo 1ppm; Nitrite 5ppm; Nitrate 5ppm; temp 78***5pm 51%/15 gal(w-15ml API stress coat) water change; 20ml API Stress Zyme; 3 tbsp. Sea Salt; gravel cleaning***8pm Ammo 1ppm; Nitrite 1ppm; Nitrate 5ppm

11/10 6am Ammon .50ppm; Nitrite 2ppm; Nitrate 5ppm; using ammo calculator increased ammo to 2ppm by adding .79 mil 10%ammo***6:30am ammo 2ppm

11/11 7pm Ammo 1ppm; Nitrite 3ppm; Nitrate 10ppm; temp 78; 51%/15 gal water change; 2tbsp Sea Salt***8:30pm Ammo 1ppm; Nitrite 2ppm; Nitrate 10ppm; temp78.

Thoughts?

 

[macphyter]

11/10 6am Ammon .50ppm; Nitrite 2ppm; Nitrate 5ppm; using ammo calculator increased ammo to 2ppm by adding .79 mil 10%ammo***6:30am ammo 2ppm

Thoughts?

 
Am I reading this right, you are ADDING ammonia to a tank with fish in it already?  If so, then stop it!  The fish create enough ammonia on their own, you are only harming them by adding more.

 

[nut4clife]

Ok my pets have been relocated to my 10gal "hospital tank". readings this morning on 29 gal "cycling without fish" tank:

11/13 4:00 a.m. Ammo .25; Nitrite 5.00+ppm; Nitrate 10ppm; according to fishless cycle by TwoTank if ammo drops to .25 and nitrite is above 2ppm and a full dose of ammonia. According to the ammonia calculator I'm to add .79 ml to bring ammonia up to 3ppm. I'll add that and test in 10 minutes for that level and then again in 24 hrs. Am I correct in doing so?

 

[nut4clife]

11/13 4:15 a.m. Ammonia 4ppm 15 minutes after dosing up with 10% ammonia. Will retest late this evening and early tomorrow morning.

 

[the_lock_man]

Back in September, three consecutive posts told you to stop adding ammonia to a fish tank that had fish in it, and you thanked them all, implying that you understood not to add ammonia to a tank with fish in it.
 
I think you've made another error, to be honest. Effectively, you are now cycling 2 tanks, one with fish and one without. The one with fish is the smaller tank, so the ammonia will be building up quicker in that than in the larger tank. You clearly have some bacteria in the 29G, so to my mind, your fish would better off in that than the 10G.
 
Before I can advise you more fully, I need to know the pH of your water currently? You originally posted that you had about 8.4 - is that still the case?

 

[daizeUK]

At least he can do frequent water changes on the hospital tank to keep their water clean while the main tank is cycling.  I hope he's changing some water daily for them.

 

[nut4clife]

The smaller tank was setup new last night. After seeing the epic bacteria developement in the 29 gallon tank and the recommendations to do something I did which was my only resource...to set up a smaller temporary tank that I can do frequent water changes to manage ammonia build up better until the main tank is cycled which looks to be relatively soon (no more than 2 weeks hopefully). After allowing the 10 gal. tank to cycle water (treated with 5 ml API StressCoat per 5 gals) overnight and successful testing early this morning I re-homed my pets.
My water PH using API strips and regent test is 7.6 to 8 and that's in both tanks.
Ammonia testing on the smaller tank will be done daily and when above .25 ppm ammonia or nitrite (if and when it shows) above the same appropriate water changes will be done.

 

[nut4clife]

Ok getting close to cycled in the 29 gallon tank. Since the 11/14 the readings have been as follows: Ammo .50/0ppm; Nitrite 5ppm; Nitrate 10ppm; PH 7.8.
Upon finding Ammo at or below .75ppm (everyday since 14th!) and Nitrite is above 1ppm I would feed Nitrite with a calculated 5ml dose of 10% ammonia solution. Rechecking ammonia 30 minutes later found ammonia level back at 4ppm each day added. 24hrs later Ammonia dropped to below .50 each day through today. Surprisingly todays (11/18/13) readings are as follows:

Ammonia 0ppm; Nitrite 1ppm; Nitrate 10ppm; PH 7.8; Temp 78. **Nitrite is dropping!** I was in disbelief so I retested Nitrite again as I let it sit in the bottle 1 minute over time and it went from light purple to blue. The second test confirmed the first, Nitrite 1ppm. Gave a full feeding of 5ml ammonia and retested Ammonia 30 minutes later. Ammonia is back at 4ppm. I'll test again in 24hrs for all results...I so hope I'm cycled!

On another note the "hospital tank" has been running .50/0ppm Ammonia and 0ppm Nitrite. Every other day when readings are at .50ppm ammonia I do a 50% water change.

Your thoughts?

 

[nut4clife]

Thanks for your responses!

 

[daizeUK]

Upon finding Ammo at or below .75ppm (everyday since 14th!) and Nitrite is above 1ppm I would feed Nitrite with a calculated 5ml dose of 10% ammonia solution.

 
You might have been adding too much ammonia.  You should only keep adding a full dose of ammonia as per the cycling guide:
 

whenever you test and ammonia is .25 ppm or lower and nitrite is clearly under 1 ppm, it is time to add a full ammonia dose again and test in 24 hours.

 
 
I am concerned that at this point your nitrite is actually not zero but off the scale because of the ammonia you've been adding.
 
To test this you can do a 1/10 diluted test - take 1ml of tank water and 9ml of deionised water and then use this solution to test for nitrite.  Then multiply the result by 10 to find your true nitrite reading.

 

[nut4clife]

Fish Herder,
I only added ammonia per the cycling guide written by twotankamin, "If at any time you test and ammonia is under .75 ppm and nitrite is clearly over 2 ppm, it is time to add more ammonia. Add the same full amount as you did the first time. Now, begin to test the ammonia and nitrite levels every other day. (You should be seeing nitrate soon if you have the kit.)"

As stated in my previous logs, "If the initial ammonia reading is at .75 or below AND nitrite is above 2ppm I added the CALCULATED (from the cycling guide-and since the API Test Kit Chart doesn't show in increments of 3ppm but 4ppm, I have to use 4ppm as a standard) 5ml 10% ammonia which would dose the ammonia back to 4ppm.

As also stated the Nitrites have dropped from 5ppm to showing only 1ppm with ammonia registering at .50 or below. So how could my Nitrites be "off the scale"? The readings as of yesterday 11/19/13 still showed Ammonia at .50ppm and Nitrite at 1.0ppm, Nitrate at 10.0ppm.

The guide stipulates, "give a maintenance feeding...When you get two consecutive ammonia readings of 0 ppm" which I haven't seen two consecutive readings of ammonia being 0ppm. That being said and my readings today when I get home show ammonia .50ppm and Nitrite 1.0ppm what should I do?

 

[daizeUK]

This is where I feel the cycling guide could be clarified, although TTA did a fantastic job on it, I can see how this could cause confusion.
 

If at any time you test and ammonia is under .75 ppm and nitrite is clearly over 2 ppm, it is time to add more ammonia. Add the same full amount as you did the first time. Now, begin to test the ammonia and nitrite levels every other day. (You should be seeing nitrate soon if you have the kit.)
[The above is intended to be a ONE TIME dose only, the first time ammonia falls under .75ppm - you do not keep doing this every time you see ammonia under .75ppm] 
 
After the second ammonia addition, while waiting for nitrite to rise, peak and drop, the bacteria will need a maintenance feeding. When you get two consecutive ammonia readings of 0 ppm, give the bacteria a “snack” by adding 1/3 of the full amount. This “snack” should be needed somewhere between days 21 and 27 of the cycle.
 
After the maintenance feeding, whenever you test and ammonia is .25 ppm or lower and nitrite is clearly under 1 ppm, it is time to add a full ammonia dose again and test in 24 hours.   [The above line shows you when to start adding ammonia again]
If ammonia and nitrite both read 0 ppm, you are cycled. Do a large water change, be sure the water is the proper temperature, and add fish. The odds are this will not be the case quite this soon.

 
It is recommended to use 3ppm as there is no danger of overdosing with 3ppm.  However if you are using 4ppm this is not a major problem, after all people were dosing 5ppm before the guide was written and many/most of them were successful.  But if you keep adding it every day before it is properly processed then you are risking an overdose.
 
If you have not yet seen two consecutive readings of ammonia being 0ppm then I think it is highly unlikely that the nitrite is being fully cycled at this stage.  The ammonia-eating bacteria should always reproduce faster than the nitrite-eating bacs.  Since you have been adding 4ppm of ammonia daily when your nitrite was 5ppm, I find it more likely that your nitrite is now off the scale.  The API kit will give you funny readings when there is too much nitrite, it might read zero or a very low value when it is actually unable to give a reading on the scale.  You'd think it would just keep getting more and more purple but the chemistry doesn't work like that
 
I might be wrong and it's possible your tank was already semi-cycled and was able to cope with the additional ammonia, either way you need to know for sure.  Do a 1/10 diluted test for nitrite for peace of mind.  If it reads normal then wait 24 hours and see if your ammonia and nitrite drop to zero.