Fish Dying

[Jrmnutra]

I have a 7 inch Synodontis Eupterus Catfish that has not been doing well for about 3-4 days. It started off turning almost orange and was acting weird. Now the fish has regained its color but its gasping for air and it was just floating a little while ago. Im not sure what I should do. Should I just wait for it to die? Should I take it out of the water and do something to make it die faster?
I feel bad. It seems to be suffering.

 

[doresy]

Hi, as with this type of question (which should be in the 'emergency' section BTW) you need to give all the info you can, such as....

Tank- size and type
Filtration- type
History- tank been cycled? how long running since cycle? how long have you had the sick fish?
Water Testing- Kit used and results (stats, not just 'the water is fine')
Stock- Other fish in your tank.

Try to answer ALL the above if you can then members may be more able to help you and your fish........

Meanwhile, do an immediate 50% water change with dechlorinated water just to be on the safe side.

 

[Jrmnutra]

Hi, as with this type of question (which should be in the 'emergency' section BTW) you need to give all the info you can, such as....

Tank- size and type
Filtration- type
History- tank been cycled? how long running since cycle? how long have you had the sick fish?
Water Testing- Kit used and results (stats, not just 'the water is fine')
Stock- Other fish in your tank.

Try to answer ALL the above if you can then members may be more able to help you and your fish........

Meanwhile, do an immediate 50% water change with dechlorinated water just to be on the safe side.

Sorry Guys. This was my first post. Heres all the info I have.
I have a 46 Gallon Tank. I have a FLuval 305 filter. I did a filter cleaning about 1.5 weeks ago. Since then the water has been very cloudy and this fish has not been doing well at all. I did the filter cleaning because my ammonia levels were very high and I couldnt get them under control. I recently added the ammonia block (ammo Block mixed with carbon??) to the Fluval. I think this is helping as that is when the fish's color came back but as of yesterday he seems to be on his way out.
Nitrites and Nitrates were Zero. PH was low for some reason so I added a small amount of baking soda to the water and then I added some crushed coral to the Fluval. PH Is stabalized at 7 ish. I havent done the Amonia levels in a day but as of last time they were bad. I will check tonight again.
The other fish in the tank are
2 Medium Angels
1 Geo - Medium 5 Inches
1 Geo - Small - 3 Inches
2 Rams - Small 2 Inches
4 Tetras - Small 1 Inch
3 Corys - Very Small
1 DOJO? - 3 inches length Like an EEL?
1 irridescant shark - 6 inches
1 Pleco - 6 Inches
1 pictus Catfish - 3 Inches
2 Guoramis - 4 inches

 

[rabbut]

OK, how did you clean the filter, and how bad is bad for ammonia reading? (numbers please) What test kit are you using (brand and type (stripps, liquid drops, tablets))

How long has the tank been going?

The ammo block is a chemical filter media for absorbing ammonia I assume?

All the best
Rabbut

 

[paulypaul182]

Just as a side note, you really need to get rid of that irridescant shark. He'll be chomping down your fish before you know it and he'll become huge!!

 

[Jrmnutra]

Just as a side note, you really need to get rid of that irridescant shark. He'll be chomping down your fish before you know it and he'll become huge!!

I had the shark since the beginning and it was the reason I got the tank. It basically swims around in the corner of the tank and never bothers anyone. Ill keep an eye out if it gets too big.

Thanks

JRM

 

[rabbut]

Any chance you can re-read the above and answer the questions? I have a very good idea as to what is likely going wrong, but don't want to surgest a solution untill I'm shure nothing else is going on

 

[Jrmnutra]

OK, how did you clean the filter, and how bad is bad for ammonia reading? (numbers please) What test kit are you using (brand and type (stripps, liquid drops, tablets))

How long has the tank been going?

The ammo block is a chemical filter media for absorbing ammonia I assume?

All the best
Rabbut

Amonia level was the worst it could be. I use an AFI Master Kit I believe (Ill check when I get home) It is liquid drops.
Tank has been going for about 6 Months.
I cleaned the filter by opening the top and rinsing out the sponges with Tap water. I then rinsed out the bags that were in the compartments with water and I left the Biological materials alone.
Im worried I may have overcleaned and caused the tank to recycle? I have been adding the good bacteria since I cleaned the filter.
The ammo block is a chemical filter for absorbing ammonia Correct.

 

[paulypaul182]

OK, how did you clean the filter, and how bad is bad for ammonia reading? (numbers please) What test kit are you using (brand and type (stripps, liquid drops, tablets))

How long has the tank been going?

The ammo block is a chemical filter media for absorbing ammonia I assume?

All the best
Rabbut

Amonia level was the worst it could be. I use an AFI Master Kit I believe (Ill check when I get home) It is liquid drops.
Tank has been going for about 6 Months.
I cleaned the filter by opening the top and rinsing out the sponges with Tap water. I then rinsed out the bags that were in the compartments with water and I left the Biological materials alone.
Im worried I may have overcleaned and caused the tank to recycle? I have been adding the good bacteria since I cleaned the filter.
The ammo block is a chemical filter for absorbing ammonia Correct.

Cleaning the sponges with tap water is a big no no. The chlorine in tap water can kill the beneficial bacteria that live on them sponges. This bacteria get rid of the ammonia and other nastys from the tank. When cleaning the sponges (which only needs doing when the filter becomes clogged) you need to wash the sponges in old tank water.
Do you de-chlorinate your tap water when you do a water change?

 

[Jrmnutra]

OK, how did you clean the filter, and how bad is bad for ammonia reading? (numbers please) What test kit are you using (brand and type (stripps, liquid drops, tablets))

How long has the tank been going?

The ammo block is a chemical filter media for absorbing ammonia I assume?

All the best
Rabbut

Amonia level was the worst it could be. I use an AFI Master Kit I believe (Ill check when I get home) It is liquid drops.
Tank has been going for about 6 Months.
I cleaned the filter by opening the top and rinsing out the sponges with Tap water. I then rinsed out the bags that were in the compartments with water and I left the Biological materials alone.
Im worried I may have overcleaned and caused the tank to recycle? I have been adding the good bacteria since I cleaned the filter.
The ammo block is a chemical filter for absorbing ammonia Correct.

Cleaning the sponges with tap water is a big no no. The chlorine in tap water can kill the beneficial bacteria that live on them sponges. This bacteria get rid of the ammonia and other nastys from the tank. When cleaning the sponges (which only needs doing when the filter becomes clogged) you need to wash the sponges in old tank water.
Do you de-chlorinate your tap water when you do a water change?

I add Stress Coat and a bit of aquarium salt every time I do a water change.

 

[rabbut]

Right, the ammonia removing filter media will stop the filter cycling properly, so I'd advise you to get it out

The sponges, though a mechanical media, contain a lot of bacteria, so washing them under the tap would likely caurse a mini-cycle in most cases, unless you wash them like so very regularly, i.e. arround once a week As Pauly above said, rince in tank water only

Next up, stocking. This is where I usualy loose co-operation, as most people don't like being told they have too many fish and/or their mixings are no good Please bear with me here

The recomendation in 1 inch per gallon of water in the tank for the first 6 months, and upto double that therafter, giving you 92inches of adult length fish total for the tank, assuming you have good filtration, which I'm afraid you don't. 46g is right on the booderline of what that 205 will do according to the manufacturer, and they are very optimistic. I would put it onto a tank of about 150l and call it adiquate, not a 207l (assuming UK gallons here) tank that it is on. Fluval recon it is good for tanks upto 200l.

If I were going to stock to 2 inches per gallon in that tank, I would be looking at the next modle up. TBH I wouldn't even condider 1 inch per gallon with the 205 on that tank The filter will limit the stocking severly. I would go to about 30-40 inches at most in your tank with that filter When a filter is not coping, ammonia is up constantly, as you probibly saw before cleaning the filter?

Next up, mixing issues;

2 Medium Angels upto 8 inches adult size. May see some tankmates as dinner
1 Geo - Medium 5 Inches will grow larger, to 8-12" I believe, and as with angels, will see some tankmates as lunch.
1 Geo - Small - 3 Inches Also, note that for a 46g to be big enough lenght wise for these as adults, it would be too shallow for angels and visa versa

2 Rams - Small 2 Inches dinner to Geos. Will be about full grown now. DO NOT tollerate poor water quality.
4 Tetras - Small 1 Inch What type? Most Tetra will be dinner the the Geos and angels later. Get to 2" on adverage
3 Corys - Very Small could be dinner to Geos, and will kill the Geos if they eat them
1 DOJO? Grow to about 4" maximum. Geo dinner later
1 irridescant shark Grows massive (3ft), will eat pretty much everything being kept with it ATM
1 Pleco What type? Many get in excess of 1ft, and like the Geos, if the tank is long enough for it, it won't be tall enough for the angels
1 pictus Catfish - 3 Inches Grow to 8 inches. Will see all Tetra, Corry, Rams, DOJO's as dinner...
2 Guoramis - 4 inches Again, what type?

All in all, lots of big fish, to whom the inch per gallon guideline does not apply, as they kick out too much waste

The issue may in part be the recent filter clean, but it will only be minor compaired to the stocking issues The filter is underpreforming for the fish stock, and there are many large and messy fish that are overloading and choaking the system. You need to get rid of the Geo's, ID shark, Pictus and possibly the angels and plec. If you want the keep most of those, bar the Geos, you will need a VERY large indoor pond. For the ID shark, you need a system thats 12ft long by 6ft wide if my memory of growing to 3ft is correct They also need a group of 5+, futher not helping the situation... Pictus would be OK in a 6fter with most plecs, Geos a 50g long, angels 30g tall.

With all those fish off your back, do a massive (as much as practically possible with the fish still in, such that there is just enough water left to cover them) waterchange, and proceed with a fish-in cycle to get the tank settled. After that, you can start to think about a revised stocking, within the limits of your set-up

HTH
Rabbut

 

[Jrmnutra]

Right, the ammonia removing filter media will stop the filter cycling properly, so I'd advise you to get it out

The sponges, though a mechanical media, contain a lot of bacteria, so washing them under the tap would likely caurse a mini-cycle in most cases, unless you wash them like so very regularly, i.e. arround once a week As Pauly above said, rince in tank water only

Next up, stocking. This is where I usualy loose co-operation, as most people don't like being told they have too many fish and/or their mixings are no good Please bear with me here

The recomendation in 1 inch per gallon of water in the tank for the first 6 months, and upto double that therafter, giving you 92inches of adult length fish total for the tank, assuming you have good filtration, which I'm afraid you don't. 46g is right on the booderline of what that 205 will do according to the manufacturer, and they are very optimistic. I would put it onto a tank of about 150l and call it adiquate, not a 207l (assuming UK gallons here) tank that it is on. Fluval recon it is good for tanks upto 200l.

If I were going to stock to 2 inches per gallon in that tank, I would be looking at the next modle up. TBH I wouldn't even condider 1 inch per gallon with the 205 on that tank The filter will limit the stocking severly. I would go to about 30-40 inches at most in your tank with that filter When a filter is not coping, ammonia is up constantly, as you probibly saw before cleaning the filter?

Next up, mixing issues;

2 Medium Angels upto 8 inches adult size. May see some tankmates as dinner
1 Geo - Medium 5 Inches will grow larger, to 8-12" I believe, and as with angels, will see some tankmates as lunch.
1 Geo - Small - 3 Inches Also, note that for a 46g to be big enough lenght wise for these as adults, it would be too shallow for angels and visa versa

2 Rams - Small 2 Inches dinner to Geos. Will be about full grown now. DO NOT tollerate poor water quality.
4 Tetras - Small 1 Inch What type? Most Tetra will be dinner the the Geos and angels later. Get to 2" on adverage
3 Corys - Very Small could be dinner to Geos, and will kill the Geos if they eat them
1 DOJO? Grow to about 4" maximum. Geo dinner later
1 irridescant shark Grows massive (3ft), will eat pretty much everything being kept with it ATM
1 Pleco What type? Many get in excess of 1ft, and like the Geos, if the tank is long enough for it, it won't be tall enough for the angels
1 pictus Catfish - 3 Inches Grow to 8 inches. Will see all Tetra, Corry, Rams, DOJO's as dinner...
2 Guoramis - 4 inches Again, what type?

All in all, lots of big fish, to whom the inch per gallon guideline does not apply, as they kick out too much waste

The issue may in part be the recent filter clean, but it will only be minor compaired to the stocking issues The filter is underpreforming for the fish stock, and there are many large and messy fish that are overloading and choaking the system. You need to get rid of the Geo's, ID shark, Pictus and possibly the angels and plec. If you want the keep most of those, bar the Geos, you will need a VERY large indoor pond. For the ID shark, you need a system thats 12ft long by 6ft wide if my memory of growing to 3ft is correct They also need a group of 5+, futher not helping the situation... Pictus would be OK in a 6fter with most plecs, Geos a 50g long, angels 30g tall.

With all those fish off your back, do a massive (as much as practically possible with the fish still in, such that there is just enough water left to cover them) waterchange, and proceed with a fish-in cycle to get the tank settled. After that, you can start to think about a revised stocking, within the limits of your set-up

HTH
Rabbut

OK I had a feeling you would say that. I actually have the FLUVAL 305 which is supposed to be good up to 70 Gallons so I think my filtration is actually fairly good. I just need to get the cycle going again.
Is there anyway to save the Catfish that is dying or should I just euthanize him?
I always thought and was told that GEOS are very calm and peaceful and they are ok in my setup Other than maybe the Overstocking issue??
What I will do tonight is take the Amonia filters out and do a massive water change. Is that the best idea?
I guess adding that Electric Blue Jack Dempsey is completely out of the Question LOL
JRM

I also figured having all those bottom feeders would help me with the waste issues of the larger fish??

 

[Jrmnutra]

Rabbut, Thanks for the info here. I Just bought a 10 gallon about 8 months ago and I got so into it that I ran out and purchased a beautiful 46 gallon Bow. I having been trying to gather as much knowledge as possible but im just a beginner still.

 

[rabbut]

Sorry, miss read. The 305 is good for the tank, but there are still too many fish in there IMO. Secondly, the Geos, though peaseful, like most other fish will eat anything that fits in their mouth. They are a large fish with equally large mouths. They won't go looking for trouble, but if it look like it can fit in The thing that is doing in the dieing fish will be ammonia poisoning. Do the large waterchange, and observe for signs of improvement. If there are none, euthanasia will be nessisary Ammonia does lasting damage, hence why you need the big waterchange ASAP. The fish may survive the cycle you are about to undertake, but they will get damaged in the process, invariably shortening their lives Removing the larger fish is still a neccisary move for long-term (and short-term for that matter with high ammonia, removing them will shorten the load on the filter, thus reducing cycle time, and ammonia+nitrite peak sizes) success A JD would be a no-no I'm afraid if you value the small fish

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Jrmnutra]

Sorry, miss read. The 305 is good for the tank, but there are still too many fish in there IMO. Secondly, the Geos, though peaseful, like most other fish will eat anything that fits in their mouth. They are a large fish with equally large mouths. They won't go looking for trouble, but if it look like it can fit in The thing that is doing in the dieing fish will be ammonia poisoning. Do the large waterchange, and observe for signs of improvement. If there are none, euthanasia will be nessisary Ammonia does lasting damage, hence why you need the big waterchange ASAP. The fish may survive the cycle you are about to undertake, but they will get damaged in the process, invariably shortening their lives Removing the larger fish is still a neccisary move for long-term (and short-term for that matter with high ammonia, removing them will shorten the load on the filter, thus reducing cycle time, and ammonia+nitrite peak sizes) success A JD would be a no-no I'm afraid if you value the small fish

All the best
Rabbut

Should I definately take the Ammonia Filters out? I was told at the fish store that they wont interphere with the cycle because they dont block everything but rather just reduce the ammonia. Im not sure.