Fish Dieing

[mark4785]

If you are an active member of this forum you may have seen this thread which relates to recent fish fatalities which I have had to cope with and fast gill movement and respiration.

About 6pm today, yet another individual fish has developed fast gill movement (this time it is my female German Blue Ram) and the gills actually look like they are gaping out. Given that the fish are not demonstrating this behaviour simultaneously it would make sense that water quality is fine and there isn't an oxygen issue; if this was the issue they would all be at the surface and/or near rapid water movement to soothe irritation to the gills/skin etc.

I have tested all my water parameters and everything is in order..

So I now think there is some sort of parasite in the water which has been transferred from my LFS. The fast gill movement and yawning indicates gill irritation and inability to get enough oxygen possibly due to gill flukes, while the other symptom (which I've mentioned in many threads) is flicking and scratching of the skin on aquarium decor which would indicate body flukes.

Given this diagnosis I have removed the carbon/adsorbant sponge and treated the water with 'Interpet Anti-slime and Velvet'. Instantly, after dosing the tank with it, both GBR's frantickly itched themselves and the others started swimming much faster. Gill movement of all the fish has also sped up to the point that it looks like it is causing their whole body to shake..

So it looks like flukes were the cause of the other fish deaths which I mentioned in my previous thread (link provided at the top). I really hope I'm not too late to cure the female GBR of this parasite and I feel really anxious that the absorbant sponge removal may induce a small mini-nitrogen cycle due to it's large mass.

I guess I should just keep my fingers crossed. If I get anymore casualties I'm taking all the stock back to the LFS because I can't cope anymore.

 

[mark4785]

Any tips on keeping the beneficial bacteria alive on the carbon sponge would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

I was under the impression that bacteria don't normally inhabit the carbon sponge.

But if you wanted to try, put the sponge in a small container of water and then do a "fishless cycle" with it, working out how much ammonia to add for a concentration of ~4ppm.

 

[Athena]

I'm assuming you've left the non-carbon sponge in the filter? No need to remove this, just the carbon sponge. Why was there a carbon sponge in your filter to begin with? Normally it's only needed for specific reasons, e.g. to help clear a tank of residue medications.

If you have some spare (new) non-carbon sponge cut a piece that matches the size of your carbon sponge and add it into your filter. As the days pass the new sponge will become home to the friendly bacteria that will have multiplied from your existing mature media in the filter.

Going back to your post - I'm a bit confused at why your fish reacted so badly when you added the medications. Meds don't normally have this effect on fish unless the dosage is incorrect (i.e. too much) or if incompatible meds are mixed in the tank.

How are the fish doing now?

Regards - Athena

 

[mark4785]

I'm assuming you've left the non-carbon sponge in the filter? No need to remove this, just the carbon sponge. Why was there a carbon sponge in your filter to begin with? Normally it's only needed for specific reasons, e.g. to help clear a tank of residue medications.

If you have some spare (new) non-carbon sponge cut a piece that matches the size of your carbon sponge and add it into your filter. As the days pass the new sponge will become home to the friendly bacteria that will have multiplied from your existing mature media in the filter.

Going back to your post - I'm a bit confused at why your fish reacted so badly when you added the medications. Meds don't normally have this effect on fish unless the dosage is incorrect (i.e. too much) or if incompatible meds are mixed in the tank.

How are the fish doing now?

Regards - Athena

The filter system contained a range of things including the carbon remover and 2 non-carbon sponges. As I had placed bog wood in the aquarium I thought it would be beneficial to leave the carbon remover in to stop the water discolouring too much.

During treatment, I have only taken the carbon remover out. Everything else is still within the filter system.

I don't think the medication itself caused the fish to react in the way I described. I think the flukes that are on their skin responded to it by moving faster, hence why the fish seemed to start frantickly itching their skin.

I did not overdose and the tank hasn't been treated before so there is no other medicine in the water.

edit: the female GBR is still at the surface of the water with rapid gill movement. She has lost most of her colour. I think she may die in the next 48 hours.

I was under the impression that bacteria don't normally inhabit the carbon sponge.

But if you wanted to try, put the sponge in a small container of water and then do a "fishless cycle" with it, working out how much ammonia to add for a concentration of ~4ppm.

I'm glad that is the case. Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[PDSimon]

Has she still not been feeding? I don't know the solution but one of my kuhli loach had 'skinny disease' and died and another went really bloated and died. They also had rapid gill movement. This was a parasite problem as a lot of kuhlis are taken from the wild where parasites are much higher. One problem is that they don't eat so an actual solution was to force feed them (no idea how...) but it might be something you want to look into as no one seems too sure!

 

[mark4785]

Has she still not been feeding? I don't know the solution but one of my kuhli loach had 'skinny disease' and died and another went really bloated and died. They also had rapid gill movement. This was a parasite problem as a lot of kuhlis are taken from the wild where parasites are much higher. One problem is that they don't eat so an actual solution was to force feed them (no idea how...) but it might be something you want to look into as no one seems too sure!

I really doubt force-feeding works. It will just spit the food out if it feels ill.

I've just emailed Interpet to ask if tonic salt can be used alongside their medication as I know salt treatments can cause parasites to dehydrate quickly. I think the female will definitely end up dying, but what I'm aiming to do now is kill the parasite before it damages the gills/skin of other fish.

 

[Athena]

Yes, I think you're doing the right thing. You might not be able to save your female ram but at least you will hopefully prevent others from the same fate. Poor thing eh? If it's flukes then once they reach that stage of rapid gill movement they're usually past the stage of help in most cases.

It just makes you feel so helpless and frustrated doesn't it?

Hope you manage to save the rest of your fish.

Regards - Athena

 

[mark4785]

Yes, I think you're doing the right thing. You might not be able to save your female ram but at least you will hopefully prevent others from the same fate. Poor thing eh? If it's flukes then once they reach that stage of rapid gill movement they're usually past the stage of help in most cases.

It just makes you feel so helpless and frustrated doesn't it?

Hope you manage to save the rest of your fish.

Regards - Athena

Well the whole issue has made me sleep-deprived, stressed and dull-headed.. not something you think would be associated with fish keeping..

I'll try my best to keep the others alive. One things for sure, the likelihood of them all eventually dieing without the medication is really high so I just hope the treatment does exactly what it says on the tin.

I don't want to add tonic salt until I get a response from Interpet that it works with their medication. Their 'dedicated' staff will respond to my email within 21 days!

 

[Athena]

OMG - 21 days

I've just been Googling to try to find any extra info for you about adding salt with the Interpet meds but I haven't found anything - although I've seen some info that says aquarium salts can be used regularly alongside other medications, but it doesn't state any specific meds.

It said on one website to up the temp to 80degrees as this aids the process of eliminating the flukes - you might already have done that anyway.

Let us know how you get on - regards, Athena

 

[mark4785]

OMG - 21 days

I've just been Googling to try to find any extra info for you about adding salt with the Interpet meds but I haven't found anything - although I've seen some info that says aquarium salts can be used regularly alongside other medications, but it doesn't state any specific meds.

It said on one website to up the temp to 80degrees as this aids the process of eliminating the flukes - you might already have done that anyway.

Let us know how you get on - regards, Athena

The temperature is 28 degrees C which is over 80 degrees F.

The female GBR's gill movement is not so fast now but she is still itching herself on the substrate suggesting the flukes are still there.

This would be a good time to put some tonic salt in I think and just hope for the best.

edit: actually, it appears that one ingredient in the medicine named formaldehyde should not be mixed with tonic salts according to one source..

 

[PDSimon]

Your temp is 80 degrees C? you could make some tea with that water 80F is about 27C

It sounds like she is getting progressively worse but there is no point in affecting all your fish if you're not sure of it so be careful! I wish you luck... It just sounds like a dodgey fish store to me

 

[mark4785]

Your temp is 80 degrees C? you could make some tea with that water 80F is about 27C

It sounds like she is getting progressively worse but there is no point in affecting all your fish if you're not sure of it so be careful! I wish you luck... It just sounds like a dodgey fish store to me

whoops, not 80 degrees C, about 28 degrees C lol.

 

[mark4785]

Here is a video of the female Ram. Like I said earlier, it looks as though the gills aren't moving as quickly so maybe she is not having issues taking in oxygen due to the flukes anymore. Having said that, she remains in an area where oxygen levels are at there highest.

Will the male German Blue Ram suffer in anyway if the female dies? They were paired up in the LFS and they said purchasing both would be mandatory.

edit: Just managed to get the female Ram to eat a very small piece of blood worm soaked in vitamins and the gill movement is more normal now.

 

[TiffanyJayne]

Any advice for me?

I explained my rams were flashing in the sand and seem to be eating the same and pushing it out there gills, he said it's gill fluke, i got some methalyne blue? but he said it's too strong just put some pennies in the water or a copper pipe, but now my cat fish are doing it =(.
I explained to someone else they had white spot a week ago and he said to treat them again for the same stuff incase it's coming back, but when they had it they didn't rub on the sand.

Hellllp i don't fancy losing any of my fishes.