Fish Died - Can I Complete Cycling Before Adding Another?

[luckyd]

I'm sad to say that our sweet little dalmation molly took ill and died very quickly. We suspected a swim bladder problem or constipation but she died so quickly that we never had a chance to try any remedy other than a large water change. Now her 5-gallon tank is empty. We rinsed out the gravel and the artificial plants and put new water in the tank. But we kept the filter in so we wouldn't lose the bacteria.

The tank was about two weeks into the cycling process when this happened. We've had a lot of challenges and it's tempting to throw up our hands and walk away but we've decided to give it another try. Everyone on this forum has been incredibly helpful so we're coming to you again for advice.

During the cycling process, we have always struggled with high ammonia levels. Even now, after putting 100% new water in the tank, the ammonia levels remain in the unsafe levels on our monitor. We were doing daily large water changes to try to deal with this situation. I looked up our city water parameters. They said they use chloramine with averages ranging from 2.6 to 3.6 ppm. From what I understand from this forum the water conditioners can break the chlorine and ammonia bond in chloramine, leaving ammonium which can cause false high ammonia readings.

We don't want to add more fish until the tank is completely cycled. Can we take advantage of the cycling that has already started in the tank? If so, how would we make that happen?

 

[Amberleaf]

Well, basically; what you should do is put fish flakes, or 5 ppm of pure household ammonia in there, and keep doing that *every* day, until the tank is *completely* cycled.... ^^;

Look for the fishless cycling thread! It explains it all. :yes:

 

[rebrn]

Hello LuckyD,

Sorry to hear about your fish. In answer to your question you can convert your tank to a "Fishless Cycle". I had the exact same situation, and converted my tank from a fish in to a fishless cycle. Here is the link for the fishless cycling information on this fourm: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=113861. You can also get to it thorugh the "Beginners Resource Center", pinned in the "New to the hobby section".

But quickly, here is what you will need:

1. A bottle of pure ammonia - do not get anything that states lemon sent. You want pure ammonia, if it lists anything other then ammonia, water, or ammonium hydroxide DO NOT GET IT. If there is no ingredient list, shake the bottle up real good, if it foams, don't use it. A few bubbles that disipate quickly is ok, but foam is no good.
2. A liquid test kit - most people here use API master kit including myself. Don't trust the strips or the meters they tend to be inacurate. The kit in the US is around $30 but it actually works out to be cheaper per test then the strips. You can get it at just about any pet store here in the states.
3. Finally, add ammonia to your tank brining your levels up to 4ppm and wait (more detailed instruction in the link above).

If your ammonia is currently high (double check it with a liquid kit)don't do any water changes. Since you don't have fish in the tank you don't have to worry about hight ammonia, if you remove it you are essentially removing the food source for the bacteria and they will eventually die off. So right now with no fish high ammonia is exactly what you want to get your tank completely cycled. But check out the link above it will give you detailed instructions on fishless cycling. It can seem overwhelming at first, just take it one step at a time, and post any questions you have.

Good luck and sorry for your loss.

 

[waterdrop]

I agree with using pure ammonia and switching to a fishless cycle but not with using fishfood. Using fishfood to indirectly create ammonia is so uncontrolled that its only a last resort in unusual situations.

You'll have to move quickly to preserve the bacteria. The first thing will be to actually -find- the ammonia, which is usually in the mop and broom sections of hardware stores - its used as a cleaner. It needs to not have any dyes or fragrances or surfactants or soap. It should not foam when shaken, just some bubbles for 2 or 3 seconds as if it were water.

It will be important to have a good liquid-reagent based test kit if you don't already. Many of us like and use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit for this purpose.

I am currently fishless cycling a little 5.5gallon too, so we'll both be doing the same thing!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[luckyd]

Thank you all so much for your help and encouragement. I am in the process of reading the article about fishless cycling in the link you provided. We tried to buy ammonia at a grocery store and home improvement store today but they all had scents and surfactants. We'll try again tomorrow, but I wonder how much time we have until the current bacteria are no longer viable.

 

[OldMan47]

Where are you in the world LuckyD?
In the UK, we see members finding the right ammonia in a place called Boots. In the US there is a hardware store called Ace True Value that carries straight ammonia. Many discount stores and grocery stores have exactly what you have been finding, ammonia with additives to make it not smell quite as bad or to act as an aid to cleaning, like surfactants and soaps. The ammonia you are looking for is technically a dilute solution of ammonium hydroxide in water. It will most often be called clear ammonia and is in the cleaning area of a store. Products called cloudy ammonia contain soaps and are not what you want.

 

[rebrn]

Thank you all so much for your help and encouragement. I am in the process of reading the article about fishless cycling in the link you provided. We tried to buy ammonia at a grocery store and home improvement store today but they all had scents and surfactants. We'll try again tomorrow, but I wonder how much time we have until the current bacteria are no longer viable.

Hi if you are in the US I found mine at "The Dollar Store", this was the only place I could find it. It was called "Austin's pure Ammonia", it is like buck for 1/2 gallon.

 

[luckyd]

Thank you OldMan47. I am in the US and there's an Ace True Value nearby so we'll try that tomorrow. The fish died two days ago on Saturday morning. We had to turn the filter off for a couple of hours while we rinsed out the tank and changed the water. Do you think the bacteria would still be surviving by the time we add ammonia, assuming we can get it by tomorrow night?

Also, about that ammonia. Readings are high even with no fish in it although I'm basing that on a monitor reading (we still need to buy the liquid tests). I did notice that the gravel still had junk in it even though we rinsed it out so it could be coming from that. But I suspect it could be because the water conditioner is breaking the chlorimine bond down into ammonium (if I have that right). I realize that right now I actually want the ammonia levels to be high. But if the monitoring is actually picking up ammonium instead of ammonia, will the bacteria be just as happy munching on that? Or do I need to somehow make sure that there's a true ammonia buildup in the tank?

Hope this question isn't too dumb. Being new, I probably only half understand things!

 

[rebrn]

I believe you will be ok with the ammomium, but OM should be able to verify that for you. If you still have fish waste or old food in your gravel, then yes the ammonia could be coming from there as well. My suggestion would be to leave the "junk" in your gravel for now, as a temporary ammonia source, but when you start your fishless cycle using ammonia I would suggest giving your gravel a good vaccuum with your gravel vac in order to clean it all out, that way when you are ready for fish you will have a nice clean gravel bed for the new fishes, you could do it before the cycling or after, I don't think it would really matter. Your going to have to do a very large water change at the end anyway so it might just be easier to do the gravel vac then. But again, OM will be able to give your much better advise on that as well.

 

[OldMan47]

As Rebrn said, you are probably still getting enough ammonia from gravel and such that the filter bacteria will not move backwards before you can get the ammonia. Expect to spend at least a dollar or two for a lifetime supply. I have over 20 tanks running and still have most of my first gallon, the smallest bottle they sell.