Fish Deaths

[davebbwood]

HI, can anyone advise me ..... I have had my tank for about 4 month generally all seems to have been going well. Current status is -

175l tank
Some plants
10 x neons (intriduced at the weekend)
3 x Guppies (intriouced at the weekend)
1 x Sucking Loach (introduced at the weekend)
5 x SCissortails
4 x Rummy Nose Tetra's
1 x Dwarf Gourami
1 x Roberti Tetra
3 x Harlequin
3 x Cory
2 x Bristle-nose Catfish
3 x Platy

ph = 7.9 and has been since day 1 (tap water is about 7.4)

Ammonia = 0, Nitrite = 0, and Nitrate ~10.

Been doing filter media changes and 25% water changes every two weeks.

The concern is that odd members of the tank just keep dying ! In the time line described we have lost

1 x Harlequin
2 x Flying Fox
2 x Cory
1 x Rummy Nose Tetra
1 x very pregnant Platy (Last week)
1 x Roberti Tetra last night

Now, from what we can see there is no evidence of any desease but we don't normally get much to look at since the dead fish get consumed pretty quick by the Bristlenose, Corys and the Yellow APple Snail we have in there.

The thing is that every week or two something seems to die !!

Is this just the way it is with Tropical fish ?

Any advice gratefully received.

 

[Marve99]

The thing is that every week or two something seems to die !!
Is this just the way it is with Tropical fish ?

I am just back into keeping fish having suffered a similar situation as you first time round, I kept platies, various tetra, goumami, cory, swordtails and the like. Fish would die, I'd replace them and more would die. I was probably replacing fish twice a month, but don't believe it is the way it is with trpoical fish.

I have been up and running now for a few months with no losses. What have I changed?

Greater consideration of stocking (species and quantity) - corys, platies and harlequins seems to get along great
Puchased a much better filter

Hope someone can offer some good advice - good luck with this - its sad to see continual losses.

 

[WILDER]

Any symtoms to go on.
Like looking pale, darker in colour, being listless and lethagic, laboured breathing, flicking and rubbing, darting, hiding away, looking skinny or bloated.
What does it look like when the fish goes to the toilet.
Is there plenty of aeration in the tank.

 

[Essjay]

Been doing filter media changes and 25% water changes every two weeks.

Do you mean that you are changing the filter media every two weeks or washing it? All of it or just some of it? Except for carbon, you don't need to change any, no matter what the manufacturers say. Every time you change some of the media you are throwing away some of your bacteria. If you are changing the media every two weeks, your filter has never cycled properly.

 

[davebbwood]

Thanks for ideas - in response to the questions .....

Any symptoms of signs - not really, the pregnant platy seemed very sluggish but we assumed that was related to the fact that she loooked like she was going to burst. She did get paler and her scales seemed to be standing out - we put both of these things down to size expansion. The Roberti Tetra was one that for some time has never been keen to rush to the service to feed, always seemed to stay low down in the tank - looked fine though.

No other symptoms common to the ones that have died.

Regarding essjay's comment - I mis-typed somewhat - I am changing 25% water every two weeks. I am changing 1 of my 2 bags of carbon every 4 to 6 weeks along with the white foan that comes with it. When I do this I am rinsing through the other carbon bag, the black foam and the 4 x bags of "bio-rings" in aquarium water. Is this routine ok ? Question, should I be rinsing the filter case itself ??

FYI, I have a FRF tank with internal filter.

 

[WILDER]

If she being listless, bloated and scales sticking out it sounds like dropsy.

 

[zoetetra]

i have been told that you dont need carbon in your filter unless you have been medicating your tank and at the end of medicating your tank you put the carbon in to remove all traces of medication. if that makes sense.
i generally dont touch the filters unless there is a water flow problem with them and then i just rinse part of the filter in old tank water

 

[davebbwood]

HI, I think I am doing what I should be and am still losing fish. We went away for a couple of nights at the weekend and came back to find a Platy and Cory gone.

I have been watching them all closely at feeding time and no obvious signs of any problems.

ANy more thoughts, please ?

 

[Davo86]

Hi, what test kit are you using to get your results?
Also what is the temperature in the tank?

 

[Curiosity101]

How did you cycle the tank?

If you fish-in cycled then this could be the root to your problem.

Is it just the 'original' stock that are dying.

Or is it recent additions aswell? Recent being anything added within the last month...

Also you added quite a few fish in one go last weekend...this could've cause an ammonia spike further weakening the original fish.

 

[Sofia]

You should stop replacing your filter media and only ever touch it when the flow of your water slows down and then just rinse the filter media in old tank water and replace it. I have had my biggest tank running for two years and have only changed the filter media once.

You do not need carbon in your filter unless you have medicated your tank and want to remove the medication so dont waste your money!!!!.

When did you introduce your apple snail? I have heard that they can bring parasites and diseases into the tank. Do you have a spare tank that you can put the apple snail in for a while?

TBH I think your problems stem from water chemistry and we need to concentrate on that!

 

[davebbwood]

HI, thanks to you all for the quick replies.....

In answer to the various questions :

Test Kit - I am using an API test kit with various chemicals to do Ph, Nitrates, Nitrites and Ammonia.

Temp - The tank is running at about 28 degree C

Cycling the tank - When I started I followed my dealer's instructions to run the tank without any fish for one week and then started very slowly by adding half a dozen fish, leaving them for a couple of weeks and then gently adding more. I used a "friendly bacteria" to get things going - sorry don't knoiw the make as am at work.

WHich fish are dieing - I would say on the whole it is the older fish that are dieing but the Platys were probably only bought about 6 or 7 weeks ago.


SOFIA - The problems seem to have got worse since I started changing the filter media ! The man at my dealership is adamant that I need to change it every 4-6 weeks. So from what you are saying I shoudl take out the carbon completely ?

Regarding the snail, I must admit I am getting a bit fed up with him, he was added at about Week 4 of the tanks life for no good reason other than my daughter liked it (sorry !!) - When I reasearched a bit it seemed like a good idea because of the cleaning up ability of the snail but the problem is that he/she/it is breeding.... I am getting loads of clumps of eggs at the top of the tank. Would I be better without do you think ?

 

[Curiosity101]

Cycling the tank - When I started I followed my dealer's instructions to run the tank without any fish for one week and then started very slowly by adding half a dozen fish, leaving them for a couple of weeks and then gently adding more. I used a "friendly bacteria" to get things going - sorry don't knoiw the make as am at work.

^^ That's some very poor information from your local fish shop (LFS) but it's very common advice. I suggest you go to our 'New To Hobby' section --> Then to Beginners Resources Centre --> Then read about cycling, and about Fish-in cycling. You got tricked into fish in cycling by your LFS. If you read both those articles you may understand why the original fish that were used to cycle the tank are now dying.
Friendly bacteria products on the whole are a waste of money. They contain incorrect bacteria and thats IF they even have any live bacteria at the time you use them.

WHich fish are dieing - I would say on the whole it is the older fish that are dieing but the Platys were probably only bought about 6 or 7 weeks ago.

^^ 6-7 weeks ago your tank had only been set up for 2months...your tank may still not have fully cycled by this point, therefore the platys could easily have been affected. Normally in a fish-in cycle you would probably have fully cycled in 2-3months. But as you weren't informed how to do a correct fish-in cycle it could easily still be trying to catch up. And this coupled with changing the filter pads, coupled with having so many fish...your bacteria colony may be struggling while they're still 'new'


Just to back up what everyone is saying by the way...I probably change my filter pads once every 6months at the VERY most. The rest of the time I just give them a quick clean in old tank water.
Also it is VERY important to only change 1/3 - 1/2 of filter pads at any one time.
And yes the activated carbon may aswell be chucked. It wont cause any problems, but the longer it's there, the more bacteria will grow on it. Then in a few months time when you decide to throw it out you'll be cutting down your bacteria colonies for awhile...
Considering it wont be doing anything, I don't see the point in keeping it. They also don't normally have as good a surface area for bacterial colonisation so you're better with a normal pad, filter floss or ceramic noodles etc.


And with regards to the snail...I have apple snails and I just remove any eggs when they're laid. No big deal in my book, but then I do really enjoy watching them so it's worth it to me.

 

[davebbwood]

Many thanks - I have clearly been misled and not understood the importance of the cycling process.

Now when I come to think about it most of my unexplained deaths have come soon after water changes ...... so I must have been pushing back my cycling.

My filter is mounted in the top of my tank so when I drain 25% for a water change it empties out and hence the bacteria end up out of water ..... the maintenance section on the forum suggests this is bad news - what should I do..... change less water more often, perhaps 10% every week ? This should keep water above the filter outlet ?

Also, shall I dispose of my carbon one bag at a time (I have two) and then replace it with some plain filter material ?

Again, many thanks.

 

[Sofia]

Yes just completely remove the carbon filter media and replace it with normal filter media if your filter allows it or gives you the option. Do not replace your normal filter media until it affects the flow of the water like I said before. Just sounds like your LFS is trying to make money off you tbh.

What brand is you filter? As long as most of the filter media is still in water then I wouldnt be worried about affecting the bacteria on it during water changes. But if it makes you feel more comfortable then there's no harm changing less water more often.

Like others have said read through the fishless cycling method in the new to the hobby section of the forum.

Expect a few more deaths before things become a bit more stabalised and change your LFS!!!!

Good luck.