VaegaVic
Fish Addict
Righto, thanks for that, needed to know as I planned to sell them. #29###..
Filter Media Question
- Thread starter AdamM
- Start date
Righto, thanks for that, needed to know as I planned to sell them. #29###..
on the subject of, your, experiences with Bactozym.
i do not, ignore or discount your experience. however it, in no way, offers indication that the product works. simply that it, seemed too, in your case.
lets look at it like scientific experiment (which it is, if you think about it). for the results of a experiment, to be accepted. they must be repeatable, not only by you, but by anybody. if you look back, here and on other forums, when products of this type are mentioned. they seem to work, for a few, but for the majority it has no effect. this sort of , empiric, evidence can not be ignored. you need a 50%+ success rate, for it to be considered more than "dumb luck". less that 50% is, often, considered as a failure.
i understand its hard to take, when the evidence of your own eyes, tell you it does work. or should i say "seems to work". dont worry, most of us have been there.
i do not, ignore or discount your experience. however it, in no way, offers indication that the product works. simply that it, seemed too, in your case.
lets look at it like scientific experiment (which it is, if you think about it). for the results of a experiment, to be accepted. they must be repeatable, not only by you, but by anybody. if you look back, here and on other forums, when products of this type are mentioned. they seem to work, for a few, but for the majority it has no effect. this sort of , empiric, evidence can not be ignored. you need a 50%+ success rate, for it to be considered more than "dumb luck". less that 50% is, often, considered as a failure.
i understand its hard to take, when the evidence of your own eyes, tell you it does work. or should i say "seems to work". dont worry, most of us have been there.
OP
OP
AdamM
Fish Crazy
Now now. Calm down you two!
erk628
Fish Herder
Do either one you have facts to backup your statements about Bactozym? Going by what some people, more then likely inexperienced fish keepers say does not sound like hard core facts to me. I would bet most of the people that have used it when they first started the cycle. In the case with this person there filter media on the other filters are already there so this product would be aiding the bacteria to multiple at a faster rate then it would with no help. I personally have never used or heard of this product I just thought I would throw my 2 cents in. I just feel to really find out if it works or not it needs to be tested in a controlled experiment.
^^^I know you know what you on about, heres my 2 pence worth...
Wheres Waterdrop, he'll set ya straight. But while he's not, i'll have a go. I can work this from my experience reading peer reviewed articles in my line of work about things like Actimel and other pro biotic drinks. Well, the same appears to apply to the so called bacteria in bottles. Right...trading standards and EU law only states that the bacteria in actimel etc etc only has to be alive when it leaves the factory. The same applies to these bacteria in bottles. Then you get the bacteria in a bottle sitting on a self in a LFS for ages. As we know the bacteria in our filters will only survive with a source of ammonia (it starts dying within an hour). The bacteria in a bottle doesn't have a source of ammonia and all dies of pretty quickly. As it does in pro-biotic drinks, you might as well have a drink of full fat milk. No the businesses that own these products often conduct their own research, which when your taught to read research, you read and handle with kid gloves. Research has been done with pro-biotic drinks by others but its very hit and miss. BTW Pro biotic drinks don't need ammonia, but every bacteria needs a source to survive.
I have just searched Pubmed and other site i access to and i can't find anything. I'll go with the public on this one though, and believe it doesn't work.
Wheres Waterdrop, he'll set ya straight. But while he's not, i'll have a go. I can work this from my experience reading peer reviewed articles in my line of work about things like Actimel and other pro biotic drinks. Well, the same appears to apply to the so called bacteria in bottles. Right...trading standards and EU law only states that the bacteria in actimel etc etc only has to be alive when it leaves the factory. The same applies to these bacteria in bottles. Then you get the bacteria in a bottle sitting on a self in a LFS for ages. As we know the bacteria in our filters will only survive with a source of ammonia (it starts dying within an hour). The bacteria in a bottle doesn't have a source of ammonia and all dies of pretty quickly. As it does in pro-biotic drinks, you might as well have a drink of full fat milk. No the businesses that own these products often conduct their own research, which when your taught to read research, you read and handle with kid gloves. Research has been done with pro-biotic drinks by others but its very hit and miss. BTW Pro biotic drinks don't need ammonia, but every bacteria needs a source to survive.
I have just searched Pubmed and other site i access to and i can't find anything. I'll go with the public on this one though, and believe it doesn't work.
erk628
Fish Herder
I must of misunderstood what Bactozym is I thought it was a bacteria aid like something that would give the bacteria that was already present in the mature filter a sort of boost to help it multiple at a faster rate then it would by itself. If it is just another bacteria in a bottle then I agree with you.
Yeah, it claims the fish can go it a tank after 24 hours. I personally think the people that try these product and it works are normally doing a fish in cycle, with hardy fish and get lucky.
VaegaVic
Fish Addict
Although it does claim this (and I would never do it), I use it (every now and then) to give the bacteria a boost when a new filter first starts up. Reasoning being very simple.
As I said before, I don't use "bacteria in a bottle" products, simply because very few work (with the possible exception of Seachem Stability, I'm testing that currently). Bactozym provides, as they state it, "by creating an ideal environment for new bacteria to grow". It does not state anywhere on the product that it's bacteria in a bottle (or capsule in this case) and although it does state fish can be added in 24 hours, (a major negative point for buying in my opinion).
I cannot stress this enough that I am not an ignorant fish keeper, I've been keeping fish for years now. I've always found the Bactozym speeds up the GROWTH of nitrfying bacteria, it does this is one of two ways, which I cannot test for unfortunately.
1) Provides an environment ideal for bacteria to grow on, I believe they're called hosts in this instance, basically "places" for the bacteria to colonise easier.
2) Breaking down into ammonia, possibly with some spore form of bacteria in them.
I'm currently testing Seachem Stability as they claim to have covered a broader range of bacteria included, all in spore form, kept in that form by a special suspension liquid. Once the liquid is added to the aquarium, it is diluted and therefore the bacteria come out of spore form. I shall be posting my results, but so far, it is incredibly promising, reducing a nitrite spike from 4ppm to 0 in just 48 hours with no water changes.
erk628
Fish Herder
That does sound promising! Do keep us updated on your results.
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