Filter Advice Please

[Jonesthecatfish]

Hi, ive been using an Elite Jet Flo 100 filter in the 95 Litre tank it came with and was wondering if i could replace the Zeo carb cartridge with normal filter foam the same as in the bottom part of the filter and the put some Tetra Safestart in to populate it with bacteria. I am begining to assume that through my ignorance in disregarding the instructions about replacing the Zeo/Carb cartridge every Month ( as i thought it was a money making exercise ) i may be puting my Fishes health at risk. I have plants in the tank but one of my Tetras has developed Pop Eye although is still very lively and feeding ok , i gather this condition can be due to poor water quality although my last readings were 0 Ammonia 40 Nitrates and i do a 10% water change every week. Would my idea work ? Also I have to remove the Zeo/carb before dosing with medication for the fish , would the one sponge be sufficient while i did that ?

 

[Aqua Tom]

You can put any media you want into a filter. DO NOT replce it every month, only replace it when it is physicly falling apart.

You said your readings where ammonia 0ppm & nitrate 40ppm.

what is your NITRITE reading? This is important

 

[waterdrop]

Agree with Tom, need to see nitrite(NO2), not to mention that we need to confirm that it's a good liquid-reagent based test kit that's giving the numbers (paper strips don't cut it.) A first habit that beginners need to develop is to know the stats of their tank based on good numbers and to understand what they mean. The members here are great at sharing that knowledge.

Zeolite is a chemical media that in large amounts carries the danger of making you dependent on it to remove ammonia. You keep seeing zero readings and thinking everything is ok, when in fact you have no A-Bacs growing and the day that the zeolite reaches capacity, the ammonia suddenly spikes and kills your fish right then and there, sometimes before you can be home to realize what's happening.

In my opinion, advanced aquarists can learn to use a little zeolite effectively to lower the last traces of ammonia and battle algae problems, but it's quite dangerous for beginners to use except in trivial amounts. Much better to stick with non-chemical media types in most cases.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Jonesthecatfish]

Agree with Tom, need to see nitrite(NO2), not to mention that we need to confirm that it's a good liquid-reagent based test kit that's giving the numbers (paper strips don't cut it.) A first habit that beginners need to develop is to know the stats of their tank based on good numbers and to understand what they mean. The members here are great at sharing that knowledge.

Zeolite is a chemical media that in large amounts carries the danger of making you dependent on it to remove ammonia. You keep seeing zero readings and thinking everything is ok, when in fact you have no A-Bacs growing and the day that the zeolite reaches capacity, the ammonia suddenly spikes and kills your fish right then and there, sometimes before you can be home to realize what's happening.

In my opinion, advanced aquarists can learn to use a little zeolite effectively to lower the last traces of ammonia and battle algae problems, but it's quite dangerous for beginners to use except in trivial amounts. Much better to stick with non-chemical media types in most cases.


~~waterdrop~~

My Nitrites are 0 and I use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. The thing is the tank manufacturer is selling this type of filter with the tank so obviously a beginner would think thats fine . Its got the foam in the the bottom of the filter which should get populated but it says never clean or replace both at the same time , are you saying that by using this type of filter that the tank is never really cycled because thats very worrying for me as ive had fish in there for a month now and before i put them in i started the tank off with Nutrafin Cycle ( also came with tank ) then 2 months later finally got readings of O Nitrites , O Ammonia , 20 Nitrates , 7.5 PH,( i did read Nitites & Ammonia during those 2 months by the way ) so when the zeros came i added the fish. The filter instructions say clean the Zeo/Carb block every 2 weeks in separate tank water and Replace it completely every 4 weeks ,i dont understand this and thats why im wondering if its ok to have just the 2 foams top & bottom in the filter and do away with the Zeo/Carb altogether.

 

[alchemist]

My Nitrites are 0 and I use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. The thing is the tank manufacturer is selling this type of filter with the tank so obviously a beginner would think thats fine . Its got the foam in the the bottom of the filter which should get populated but it says never clean or replace both at the same time , are you saying that by using this type of filter that the tank is never really cycled because thats very worrying for me as ive had fish in there for a month now. The filter instructions say clean the Zeo/Carb block every 2 weeks in separate tank water and Replace it completely every 4 weeks ,i dont understand this and thats why im wondering if its ok to have just the 2 foams top & bottom in the filter .

Yes - this is the danger - the Zeolite may have been removing all the available ammonia.
Conversely if that Zeo/Carbon cartridge has been in there a long time it may be holding a good bacteria colony.

If I were you I would assume that you are in a fish-in cycle situation and keep a close eye on ammonia / nitrite / nitrate levels.

 

[Jonesthecatfish]

My Nitrites are 0 and I use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. The thing is the tank manufacturer is selling this type of filter with the tank so obviously a beginner would think thats fine . Its got the foam in the the bottom of the filter which should get populated but it says never clean or replace both at the same time , are you saying that by using this type of filter that the tank is never really cycled because thats very worrying for me as ive had fish in there for a month now. The filter instructions say clean the Zeo/Carb block every 2 weeks in separate tank water and Replace it completely every 4 weeks ,i dont understand this and thats why im wondering if its ok to have just the 2 foams top & bottom in the filter .

Yes - this is the danger - the Zeolite may have been removing all the available ammonia.
Conversely if that Zeo/Carbon cartridge has been in there a long time it may be holding a good bacteria colony.

If I were you I would assume that you are in a fish-in cycle situation and keep a close eye on ammonia / nitrite / nitrate levels.

 

[Jonesthecatfish]

I thought id done a fishless cycle , i regularly test the water and since adding the fish do a 10% water change every week .

 

[waterdrop]

Totally agree with alchemist.

Jones, I'm not familiar with the Elite Jet Flow 100 and so have no idea whether it contains what I'd consider a lot of zeolite or just a small amount of zeolite and it would make a difference, presenting both possibilities as alchemist has spelled out.

So, as I see it from my limited observation point, there is the concern that if the zeolite has been doing all the work of taking ammonia out, the you could face a sudden fish-in cycle when you remove it for good (which would be a good goal.) But, it could be long "dead" or in an insignificant amount and sufficiently behind your bacterial colonies (which could be healthy by now) and thus most of the worry could be unfounded, it's just impossible to tell without removing the zeolite and testing twice a day for a while, being ready to change water with good technique.

A standard recommendation made to our beginning users who get here early in the planning process is to not use carbon or chemical media in their filters but to instead use filters that contain generally:
1) larger mechanical (ceramic rings, coarse sponge etc. to trap larger particles), then
2) biomedia (medium pore sponge, ceramic gravel etc. for high-surface-area bacteria attachment, then
3) fine mechanical (polyfloss loose or in mats)

Chemical media like carbon or other things are then swapped in rarely to solve very rare things such as medication removal.

Many inexpensive starter kit filters also have problems with not fully filtering the water because they allow leak-through in various ways, but I have no idea for this particular filter.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Jonesthecatfish]

Totally agree with alchemist.

Jones, I'm not familiar with the Elite Jet Flow 100 and so have no idea whether it contains what I'd consider a lot of zeolite or just a small amount of zeolite and it would make a difference, presenting both possibilities as alchemist has spelled out.

So, as I see it from my limited observation point, there is the concern that if the zeolite has been doing all the work of taking ammonia out, the you could face a sudden fish-in cycle when you remove it for good (which would be a good goal.) But, it could be long "dead" or in an insignificant amount and sufficiently behind your bacterial colonies (which could be healthy by now) and thus most of the worry could be unfounded, it's just impossible to tell without removing the zeolite and testing twice a day for a while, being ready to change water with good technique.

A standard recommendation made to our beginning users who get here early in the planning process is to not use carbon or chemical media in their filters but to instead use filters that contain generally:
1) larger mechanical (ceramic rings, coarse sponge etc. to trap larger particles), then
2) biomedia (medium pore sponge, ceramic gravel etc. for high-surface-area bacteria attachment, then
3) fine mechanical (polyfloss loose or in mats)

Chemical media like carbon or other things are then swapped in rarely to solve very rare things such as medication removal.

Many inexpensive starter kit filters also have problems with not fully filtering the water because they allow leak-through in various ways, but I have no idea for this particular filter.

~~waterdrop~~

Hi Waterdrop & Alchemist , when you say Chemical media are swapped ive just lost a guppy and one of my Skirted Tetras is reaaly bad with Both POP Eyes distended abdomen and shiny scales Shes had one slight POP eye that ive bought some Interpet Anti Internal Bacteria for but it says on the instructions Not harmful to filters but to remove Zeo/Carbon when dosing but will the sponge part of the filter on the bottom keep the the tank going while i use the treatment ? or what else can i put in its place ? also in desperation i used the Treatment with the Zeo/Carbon still in hoping that it will by now have been long dead like you said was a possibility and that it might have a bacteria population now . Shes suddenly gone really bad in the last 2 days , im due to add the 2nd dose on Friday do you think i should take the Zeo out for it ?

 

[OldMan47]

If you have had that same zeolite the whole time, it may well be exhausted by now. To me that would mean that the other part of your filter is doing all the work or the zeolite may even be acting as bio-media once it has been chemically exhausted. If you remove the zeolite, keep it wet for a while and monitor your water chemistry. If it goes bad on you, the zeolite was probably carrying some of the biological load. Unless you are prepared to do huge water changes, do not remove all of that zeolite at once. Any changes in a tank's arrangement are far safer done in gradual steps. It is not as much fun as a quick change but it will cause you far less stress trying to care for the fish.

 

[Jonesthecatfish]

If you have had that same zeolite the whole time, it may well be exhausted by now. To me that would mean that the other part of your filter is doing all the work or the zeolite may even be acting as bio-media once it has been chemically exhausted. If you remove the zeolite, keep it wet for a while and monitor your water chemistry. If it goes bad on you, the zeolite was probably carrying some of the biological load. Unless you are prepared to do huge water changes, do not remove all of that zeolite at once. Any changes in a tank's arrangement are far safer done in gradual steps. It is not as much fun as a quick change but it will cause you far less stress trying to care for the fish.

Ive just lost another Guppy as well as having a very sick Skirted Tetra ( Posted in Fish Emergencies). Got a small Ammonia reading today so Immediately did a 15% water change and Ive removed the Zeo/carb cartridge to put Anti Bacterial medication in for Tetra & kept it in water but it cant be working if ive just had the Ammonia reading can it ?. I need to fix this before any more fish are affected or die. I have the sponge in the bottom part not sure what type it is and would rather not use Zeo/carb again instead i want to replace it with another media such as foam and was thinking of of getting some Safestart to help it but what type of foam goes in the top half of the filter to replace the Zeo/carb ?

 

[OldMan47]

If the filter body is as straight as it looks in the on-line pictures, you could probably get another filter sponge made for that filter and simply cut it to length to fit.

 

[Jonesthecatfish]

If the filter body is as straight as it looks in the on-line pictures, you could probably get another filter sponge made for that filter and simply cut it to length to fit.

The filter body has 2 square compartments the bottom 1 contains like a coarse sponge and the top 1 contained the square Zeo/carb Cartridge . Ive been to the LFS and put in 1 flat piece of foam and 1 flat piece of polyester filter pad but the filter has sucked that bit up diagonally . Could i put some . Biomax ceramic rings above them in the top compartment, , ive read that ceramic rings are good at holding bacteria ? if i got them would the top bit where i described be the best place ? or would i be putting too much strain on the filter/ impeller by having the compartment full ? , although it was before with the Zeo/carb block .

 

[Gilli]

Water changes should be at least 30% minimum every week along with a thorough gravel vac