Female Stress

[thisguyek]

I added a group of two male and two female platys last night. my original stock consists of 5 male guppies and 1 male platy. This morning I've noticed my guppies are following the females around almost like theyre 'sniffing' them. My original male platy as well as the new two havent seem interested. Will this eventually calm down between the guppies? Will my females suffer from too much stress? If so, Ill have to get a few more i guess...

 

[amy1994]

Your females might die from that stress.
There should be at least 2 females to every male.

 

[KittyKat]

No, it will usually persist until someone dies (guppies by female platys, female platys by guppies). Yes, the females will suffer.

The four best options are:
1. get 2 female platys per each male livebearer (so 16 females in total)
2. get rid of the male guppies and get 4 more female platys
3. get rid of the female platys
4. get 10 female guppies and another 4 female platys, so total ratio is 2 females per male of own species

 

[thisguyek]

yikes! I thought they kept it to species... lol

I don't want to add to many right away though. what are my options as far as timing? I'd like not to get rid of the females, but if I have to add another 10+fish... I have room(55gal) so its not an issue of space... but i would like to keep room for another species somewhere down the line.

How long before the females get to stressed? days, weeks?

 

[KittyKat]

Could be hours, it depends on the individual fish and set-ups. But do not think you can put off doing *something*. If you are reluctant to add more fish in the next few days, at least add some bushy plants for the females to hide in.

In a 55 gallon, fully cycled tank, you should not have any problems adding 16 female livebearers in one go, in terms of bio-load. If you do not have plants, just be careful on the feeding for the first week or two.

What are the dimensions of the tank and the current stock? What do you want to have in it?

 

[thisguyek]

I was always under the impression of stocking slower than that kitty kat... like increasing by 50% of your current stock. is that not always the case? can you get away with increasing more the bigger your tank is?

anyway, the dimensions are 12D X 20H X 48W

Actually, my two back corners are sort of boxed in with plants (fake). I also have a log cabin (which is open inside) with a dug out cave. Plus a hollow log. so if they need refuge they should find it until i figure something out.

I would like to eventually add a nice shoal of neons and danios... or one or the other. and possibly a pair of angels.

Thinking about it a while I may end up bringing the females back. I'm not sure If I'm up to the challenge of deciding what to do with the fry every time one gives birth.

Classic case of ignorance here i suppose. I assumed that the ratio applied within the species. Didn't know that it went for all live bearers in general.

 

[KittyKat]

I was always under the impression of stocking slower than that kitty kat... like increasing by 50% of your current stock. is that not always the case? can you get away with increasing more the bigger your tank is?

Is the livebearers your whole stock then? How did you cycle the fish tank and when did you complete the cycle? You are right that a gentler stock increase is better, but you are also right that in a larger volume of water (especially with low stock to start with), it is possible to increase stocking more than in a small tank. Live plants will also make stock increases easier.

Actually, my two back corners are sort of boxed in with plants (fake). I also have a log cabin (which is open inside) with a dug out cave. Plus a hollow log. so if they need refuge they should find it until i figure something out.

That doesn't really sound like that much at all..

I would like to eventually add a nice shoal of neons and danios... or one or the other. and possibly a pair of angels.

Given that livebearers do best in hard, slightly alkaline water, your best bet might be rasboras and keyholes. (Tetras and angels usually do better in soft, acidic water.) Danios are nice, but don't always make the best guppy companions because they are hyper and angels tend to nip at guppies. At any rate, even with 20-25 odd livebearers, the tank should still take 15-20 schooling fish (I recommend sticking to one species, at least to start with) and a pair of cichlids without problems.

Thinking about it a while I may end up bringing the females back. I'm not sure If I'm up to the challenge of deciding what to do with the fry every time one gives birth.

If you leave them in the tank, they will probably just get eaten..

Classic case of ignorance here i suppose. I assumed that the ratio applied within the species. Didn't know that it went for all live bearers in general.

Not all.. but guppies, platys, mollies, swordtails and similar will at least attempt to interbreed.

 

[thisguyek]

In reference to the stock/cycle. My stock original stock is the 5 male guppies 1 male platy, and 1 pleco. I upgraded to a 55 gal tank the first of this year from a cycled 10 gal tank. Transferred filter, the log, 4 platys and the pleco. I'm not exactly sure when the cycle ended (or even if it went through a mini cycle for that matter) I was using the test strips (which I've heard many negative things about from people on this site) I never really experienced the spikes that i was expecting to see after adding more fish. But my 55 gal tank has been up and running for over 6 months now.

If you don't see a problem with adding a large group of females at one time, I think I'll take that route and see what happens. should i keep ratios with respect to species? say another 4 female platys (which would bring it 2:1) and 10 female guppies (which would also be 2:1) could i possibly get away with less female guppies?

 

[thisguyek]

I was also wondering how many fry can i expect to make it naturally? I wont be setting up a net or divider or new tank for the fry. The last time i had a platy give birth i had two survive. Is this complete chance on how many make it, or is that a pretty average number?

 

[KittyKat]

In reference to the stock/cycle. My stock original stock is the 5 male guppies 1 male platy, and 1 pleco. I upgraded to a 55 gal tank the first of this year from a cycled 10 gal tank. Transferred filter, the log, 4 platys and the pleco. I'm not exactly sure when the cycle ended (or even if it went through a mini cycle for that matter) I was using the test strips (which I've heard many negative things about from people on this site) I never really experienced the spikes that i was expecting to see after adding more fish. But my 55 gal tank has been up and running for over 6 months now.

You should be ok to add 6 fish or so per week. As mentioned before, it might be wise to not increase the feeding for at least a few days after adding the new fish. Still, whatever you do, have a liquid test kit and do test the water when adding new fish, at least until you have more experience in stocking tanks.

If you don't see a problem with adding a large group of females at one time, I think I'll take that route and see what happens. should i keep ratios with respect to species? say another 4 female platys (which would bring it 2:1) and 10 female guppies (which would also be 2:1) could i possibly get away with less female guppies?

If you want the guppies to breed, then with respect to species is best, although it does not matter that much. Yes, once the groups start getting larger, it is possible to get away with ratios closer to 1:1. This would work well with slower stocking, for example, if you want to "feel" how a ratio of (for example) 1.5:1 works. It very much depends on individual fish, as always.

I was also wondering how many fry can i expect to make it naturally? I wont be setting up a net or divider or new tank for the fry. The last time i had a platy give birth i had two survive. Is this complete chance on how many make it, or is that a pretty average number?

The better the environment for the females, the more fry will survive.. that's the main problem. Also, older females can sometimes give birth to as many 150 or more fry at a time.. on the other hand, if you keep the fish peckish, maybe only 1-5 per drop will survive even in a moderately heavily planted tank. I used to keep guppies in a tank your size (heavily planted) and used to sell lots of 100 pairs to the LFS once or twice per year.. but I can't imagine most people having as much of a jungle in their tanks as I did!

 

[thisguyek]

alright, ill give it a go! thanks for the advise kitty kat!

One question about liquid tests. I've had a few people recommend the API master test kit. I priced one out last night at 35$ How long will one of them last me??

 

[thisguyek]

well just a bit of an update... Went out and bought 5 more female platies. They didnt have any female guppies Everybody seems to be doing fine for the time being, especially the original male platy! Also got a master test kit. I like it better than the strips, however, i find it a bit hard to read...

Ill let you know if i get a batch of fry!

 

[KittyKat]

Good one, do the females look a bit less harassed now? Any harassment should be spreading out over all of them, instead of just the few as it was before.

 

[thisguyek]

I think in general its slowed down a little bit. The older platy was chasing like crazy yesterday. He and one other guppy were the only ones really running around. The 5 females are quite a bit smaller than the rest. not sure if that makes a difference or not, but they seem to be getting left alone. It wasn't like the first night at all.

kitty kat, any tips or tricks on reading the liquid tests? I found it a little tricky to interpret.

 

[KittyKat]

Erm, read them under good light, but not direct light.. or try posting a photo on here for someone to interpret. Try to compare the actual colour of the liquid to the shart, not its saturation..