Counsel - trying the Americas again

[MattW45 161]

After I returned from a short break away, I found the last of the £100 loaches dead, along with my eldest female Sawbwa. What remains are two young males, an unknown, and my eldest male, whose age is catching up with him. Asian species have always been a part of my tanks, yet with the dwindling Sawbwa, ideas have started to pop up. I have been tempted to try species from the Americas again. Last time, I only ever skimmed the surface with Otocinclus and Embers. I had thought of Tetras again, but all I see are similarities with Danio and Barbs from previous encounters (don't come after me). Larger species like chichlids would be interesting, but a group to me is more appealing than a few individuals or pair. That leaves Liverbearers. Originally, a group of fish I was never really fond of, as I thought it was just the 'Big 4' until I discovered the lesser-knowns. I've found the Goodeidae family a very interesting group of fish. I've done some snooping around and found they are quite hard to come by locally and from reputable online vendors, which is a pain. The other issue is that I am limited to a 23-gallon tank. It seems they can be kept in this footprint, but it's borderline. I'm at a crossroads of what to do. Any other American oddballs out there?

 

[anewbie]

After I returned from a short break away, I found the last of the £100 loaches dead, along with my eldest female Sawbwa. What remains are two young males, an unknown, and my eldest male, whose age is catching up with him. Asian species have always been a part of my tanks, yet with the dwindling Sawbwa, ideas have started to pop up. I have been tempted to try species from the Americas again. Last time, I only ever skimmed the surface with Otocinclus and Embers. I had thought of Tetras again, but all I see are similarities with Danio and Barbs from previous encounters (don't come after me). Larger species like chichlids would be interesting, but a group to me is more appealing than a few individuals or pair. That leaves Liverbearers. Originally, a group of fish I was never really fond of, as I thought it was just the 'Big 4' until I discovered the lesser-knowns. I've found the Goodeidae family a very interesting group of fish. I've done some snooping around and found they are quite hard to come by locally and from reputable online vendors, which is a pain. The other issue is that I am limited to a 23-gallon tank. It seems they can be kept in this footprint, but it's borderline. I'm at a crossroads of what to do. Any other American oddballs out there?

odd balls - knife fishes, fresh water rays, whiptails, ..... and more.

a few more suggested by mrs google:
banjo catfish
south american lungfish - rather amusing fish
and
south american puffer (never been a fan of puffers but some love them)

 

[Rusty_Shackleford45 160]

What about pygmy sunfish (Elassomatidae)?

 

[GaryE6 4]

Have a look at the British Livebearer Association. They seem to have an auction coming up in Carlisle. I know my English friends don't travel as much as we Canadians, but looking at google earth, that seems right next door (I'm 4 hours from the LFS).

With a club, you can see what is actually possible in the country. Plus you might meet cool and helpful people.

What you need is Xiphophorus xiphidium.

 

[MattW45 161]

odd balls - knife fishes, fresh water rays, whiptails, ..... and more.

a few more suggested by mrs google:
banjo catfish
south american lungfish - rather amusing fish
and
south american puffer (never been a fan of puffers but some love them)

Might be a tad cramped in the tank for those guys

 

[Essjay45 160]

How hard is your tap water Matt? I know St Helens has soft water but you are further east than where I was brought up. Many livebearers need hard water so you'd need to research to match your hardness.

 

[anewbie]

Might be a tad cramped in the tank for those guys

Oh limited to 23 gallons; well some of the smaller whiptail or a puffer.

There is also the american flag fish - but in truth if you 23 is alike a 20 high as oppose to a 20 long; i'd cry and then consider some morse code tetra.

freshwater rays are really neat but you should get a 300 or better 600 for them.

 

[MattW45 161]

What about pygmy sunfish (Elassomatidae)?

Thanks I shall have a look into those

Have a look at the British Livebearer Association. They seem to have an auction coming up in Carlisle. I know my English friends don't travel as much as we Canadians, but looking at google earth, that seems right next door (I'm 4 hours from the LFS).

With a club, you can see what is actually possible in the country. Plus you might meet cool and helpful people.

What you need is Xiphophorus xiphidium.

I will have a look into the BLA, It would be great if there was a Manc based group. I reckon I’d be paying more than double for a train ticket up north than the fish.
I need to get a car don’t I?
I did see Xx mentioned in a list on Reddit they seem to be a popular choice by breeders from what was discussed.

 

[MattW45 161]

How hard is your tap water Matt? I know St Helens has soft water but you are further east than where I was brought up. Many livebearers need hard water so you'd need to research to match your hardness.

Tap is on the softer side so probably not ideal. I reckon I could buffer it but I guess long term it’s not viable. Perhaps I need to follow @anewbie with the morse code tetra option.

 

[Boundava3 2]

Darterfish?
Family Percidae, genus etheostoma.
Always wanted try them.

 

[anewbie]

pygmy sun fish is not a bad suggestion - havent' kept them myself and not sure if you can keep them in a group - another option are some of the smaller whiptails - they aren't as bad as pleco in terms of bioload but some of them - well a lot of them can get very long - Rineloricaria parva which is among the smallest still gets to nearly 4 inches. Also they don't really do a good job of covering the mid water column though you can mix them with a small tetra.

Hum. I was just down stairs watching my Hyphessobrycon negodagua and the males have turned jet black with very strong white fins - really a nice tetra that doesn't get too large (a very nice but large tetra is wadi - blue berry); anyway not sure how long your aquarium is as they school so 8 or so is required and they are fairly active - i have them in a 40b but in concept a 20 long (12inch x 30 inch floor) might work. They never stop swimming. back and forth back and forth. never stop. The morse code tetra is like ember tetra - never moves. Just sits there. Never move. stationary. never move.

 

[GaryE6 4]

I thought for some reason you had hardwater.

You are a natural for Aphyosemion or Epiplatys killifish. You were detailed in how you bred the Sawbwa, and seemed to like breeding them. You like planted tanks.

Look up the British Killifish Association. I'll wager there's a Manchester group.

A group of showoff Chromaphyosemions, or some brilliant Aphyosemion striatum... very easy fish.

 

[Rusty_Shackleford45 160]

pygmy sun fish is not a bad suggestion - havent' kept them myself and not sure if you can keep them in a group -

I believe you want to keep them in a group, it makes them less shy.

 

[anewbie]

I believe you want to keep them in a group, it makes them less shy.

I just looked it up for sadness - a few comments:
a) best in 1:2 or 1:3 ratio (m/f) so in a 23 probably 2 male 4 females or 1 male 3 females
b) they almost always require live food so you have to be prepared to grow your own live food - i would think microworms or bbs are your best options
c) they are pretty little suckers.
d) they do best in a densely planted aquarium.
theyh like gh 3 to 8 and kh 2 to 8 tds 100 to 200
really weird another search indicates they love blackwater so which is it medium hard water or blackwater.

I see google doesn't understand that 'blackwater' is a formal defn with tds below 15 - instead it just thinks the water is dark. However it now sez you can keep pygmy sun fishes in tds 50 to 150 so we can see it keeps changing its mind - anyway
they are pretty little fishes for a species only aquarium if you don't mind constantly raising live food.

Of course a lot of killis prefer live food.

Oh my it just got more complicated there are SIX species of pygmy sun fishes (all in the genus Elassoma); no clue if they all have different care requirements

There is another major gotcha - they require summer/winter temperatures cycle - no year round one temp fits all for these guys.

The primary difference between the 6 species is temperature requirment with Elassoma gilberti being the prettiest.

 

[Rusty_Shackleford45 160]

I just looked it up for sadness - a few comments:
a) best in 1:2 or 1:3 ratio (m/f) so in a 23 probably 2 male 4 females or 1 male 3 females
b) they almost always require live food so you have to be prepared to grow your own live food - i would think microworms or bbs are your best options
c) they are pretty little suckers.
d) they do best in a densely planted aquarium.
theyh like gh 3 to 8 and kh 2 to 8 tds 100 to 200
really weird another search indicates they love blackwater so which is it medium hard water or blackwater.

I see google doesn't understand that 'blackwater' is a formal defn with tds below 15 - instead it just thinks the water is dark. However it now sez you can keep pygmy sun fishes in tds 50 to 150 so we can see it keeps changing its mind - anyway
they are pretty little fishes for a species only aquarium if you don't mind constantly raising live food.

Of course a lot of killis prefer live food.

Oh my it just got more complicated there are SIX species of pygmy sun fishes (all in the genus Elassoma); no clue if they all have different care requirements

Medium hard blackwater, no problem lol.
I believe there is a population within a 4 hour drive of my location.
I've been thinking about collecting some next summer. They are gorgeous little fish..
I've heard they will accept frozen bloodworms. I cannot confirm that as gospel.