External Filters....need Some Questions Answered.

[OldMan47]

Hi Lazerus, me again. I have no experience with a Fluval or an Eheim and I cannot get a Tetra-tec here. I use the Rena XP series and have had no problems with them since the first I ever bought. I also use a Marineland C series that looks just like the Tetra-tec but I don't really know that it is the same filter. The Marineland is not the best of the ones I have tried but it does a good filtering job.
I saw that MW referred to you as "she" but I really had no idea of gender so we can put that aside.
1. To me flow has less to do with adequate filtration than volume. If you can get a canister with a huge filter media chamber, it will be a better filter for biologicals which is what I care about. High flows are important if you want to try to avoid using a gravel vac but what a low flow, high volume filter misses is pushing all the solids into the filter which I find meaningless.
2. A filter is too powerful if your fish have trouble going about their daily lives with the filter running. Otherwise it is fine. I use the spray bar to direct flows in my tanks so that the fish are OK and do not reduce flow much from my filters because I can make the fish comfortable without reducing flow.
3. How you add media is you open the new filter and just fill up the baskets with the media you want to use unless you have an Eheim classic. For those, you treat the whole filter casing as a giant basket and build the media layers without the benefit of internal baskets. I( would find that frustrating after experiencing the other approach.

 

[TigerIssey]

A couple of people answered about their experiences on getting higher powered filters for smaller sized tanks so I think I'm okay with that, although I'm still wondering what will I do if its too powerful?

I have plants so I don't like the surface agitated too much as it drives off CO2, in addition I also did this when I overfiltered my 105litre. Where the outlet pipe is fixed into the tank, lower it, a few inches below where it says in the instructions to put it. The higher up the tank it is, the more wave like effect you get. It worked very well for me. Also if struggling, play with the direction of the flow, ie across the tank instead of forwards, try placing about 6" from the tank wall aimed at it, see if this reduces the impact of the flow. It really does depend on whether your fish are struggling, mine didn't after lowering the outlet pipe.

Tina

 

[Lazerus]

Okay so.....

I'm feeling much more confident now with what I'm doing....I'm definitely interested in going 'external'. It seems like the way to go!

I really like the idea of not having to tamper with the tank at all when doing filter media changes or maintenance plus it gives me that bit more space in my tank, which is so important in my medium sized tank......My Eheim 2010 is quite a big fella in the corner!

Plus I will definitely go one up than the basic size for my tank....one that goes up to 200L-250L (which if at a later date I do decide to upgrade, I'll be able to still use this filter comfortably)

And I will invest in a spray bar also to diffuse the flow if it is too strong or perhaps its already included in the box?

Or I'll lower the outlet pipe...whatever give the best result.

Now all I have to decide on is the brand.....I'm thinking of going with Eheim only because of the price and the fact that it has years of experience in the field. (Not crazy about the bright green colour though....its lost points for that! )

Last thing I need to check up on is replacement parts & the cost of the actual filter media, and how expensive parts are to replace and if they are easy to source here in Ireland.

Ok....Thanks everyone for the very interesting debate about external filters!

 

[jimmyringo]

Lazerus,
If you're still thinking of the Eheim,a lot of them come with the filter media supplied.Just check when you're buying it.I got mine at Aquatics Online.

Oh, and i haven't needed any replacement parts since i got it.

Aquatics Online

 

[TigerIssey]

Last thing I need to check up on is replacement parts & the cost of the actual filter media, and how expensive parts are to replace and if they are easy to source here in Ireland

With an external filter, apart from foam pads (in my fluval anyway, it came with media to set up) additional media you can buy anything. The bio chip things are generic, just buy the cheapest, for fine filter floss i buy a metre of pond filter stuff (dirt cheap) and if you use carbon to filter out meds, just buy loose carbon and filter bags. Thats the beauty of external, you put what you want in the baskets!!

Tina

 

[Lazerus]

Hi all,

Thanks for the info!

Well I've looking online again, and I was looking at the Eheim Classic....and additonal filter media etc..

Now, I've spotted this one which about the same price:

Eheim External Filter Professional Complete Special Edition

The new generation of filters with easy handling.
Includes all accessories and filter media.

Whats the difference between this and the Classic?

 

[Lazerus]

By the way, I checked Aquatics Online...the Eheim professional is cheaper on that site alright, and they do deliver to Ireland but their postage is quite hefty at €25!!! So, its the same price for me to get it here in Ireland.

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Laz,

Well on the subject of the eheim classic vs. the Pro series (there is Pro, Pro II, Pro3 but they quickly get too big for what you need) I believe the significant thing that might not have been discussed or clear might be the way the input/output tubes clip to the filter box. With the Pros, both hoses come to a block (a quick release clip as it were) and you just lift a nicely leveraged clip handle, which locks the water into the hoses to retain the siphon and the little block and hoses lift off the filter box, leaving it square and dry and ready to carry to the tub for cleaning. There are flow rate levers for input and output right beside this block that range between all the way "open" and completely "off."

Then, when you unclip and lift the pumphead/cover off the filter box, it just sits there with no water spillage. All the processes can be done without water spills if careful, the design of the pumphead going down in from the top edges means the box water level will be lower. and the 4 feet are at the outer corners making it all very stable. The box is totally simple, with large roomy trays and one simple return tube progressing upward, built into each tray to reach the pumphead for water return to tank. All parts are robust and can be simply pulled apart and put together for cleaning and there are a bare minimum of them. The 2 Pro models are simpler than the Pro II ones in not having a little primer thumb pump, so they have one less thing to go wrong. Priming has never seemed a problem, usually automatic when you plug in but depends on how you do it.

I was thinking maybe we could hear from jimmyringo about the classic as I believe one hose goes in at the bottom and there are some other differences that require a bit more technique to be learned but are supposed to be quite ok to do once you get the hang.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Lazerus]

Thanks Waterdrop... it does sound more user friendly then.

Here is the link to the ones I'm looking at...

The Eheim classic....(which doesn't includ the filter media)
http/www.zooplus.ie/shop/fish/filters_pu...rs/eheim/126260

The Eheim External Filter Professional Complete Special Edition
http/www.zooplus.ie/shop/fish/filters_pu...rs/eheim/126262

This one doesn't have a heater where as the Pro I & II models seem to?.....

Its the 2222 I might be interested in (for up to 40gals/150Ls)....or would I be completely mad upgrading to the 2224 (for up 80 gal/300L!!!)

May as well hang a sheep for a lamb and all that!!

 

[jimmyringo]

Yep,the classic has the intake hose going in the bottom,so the water travels up through the media and comes out the top and back to the tank.The classic also has a media bucket ,as opposed to trays,which i have no problem with.I just layer my media in the proportions recommended,separated by the filter pads(sponges).
The only (minor) downside i can think of with the 2213 is that it is not self-priming,although this only has to be done once.it uses double tap connectors and a quick release coupling,so the flow to the filter can be stopped without losing the syphon,making maintenace a piece of cake.I give mine a clean every few months and it only takes about 20 mins and never a drop spilled

Sorry i can't go into more detail but i'm at work so this is a bit rushed.Hope it's of some help.

 

[waterdrop]

Thanks Jimmy, so it sounds like the trays are one of the main differences besides maybe the media volume, which might be bigger each time you move up. The trays are pretty nice for keeping different media separate (but not essential of course as jimmy has said).. I have ceramic rings in the bottom tray, then there's a coarse sponge on top of that, then there are ceramic pebbles in the next tray up and then floss type pad on top of that before the pump head. Each tray is quite big and heavy (even at this smaller 2222 model) and its nice that each has a little handle that comes up as you lift it out and then swish it in tank water, it allows for a quick rinse out.

In the past I wouldn't have had a hard time recommending a size, Laz, but over time (I stuck pretty close to 5x turnover rate not wanting to watch fish blowing around (the washing machine effect)) I've come to realize that our group of planted tank guys really go for something more like 10x turnover and that in fact quite a few aquarists here are using up above 5x turnover. To handle those larger flow rates you do more redirecting of outlets to bounce off tank walls and other things to keep the fish from blowing around. Anyway, I've become less decided about this kind of recommendation as a result. There are just a lot of ways to run a tank out there and many are quite valid! (So, yes, depending on your tank size, you can be thinking about turnover rates up above 5x - its quite common.)

Eheim has great material you can look at of course at eheim.com - I particularly like the pdf of "eheim product range" that is hidden under "booklets" at the usa site because it has a useful chart at the very bottom. Now, I forget your tank size but of course I'd say HOB "power filters" are also quite a good option at 20g and down, and sometimes at setup with 2 of these is a very flexible thing where you can do alternating maintenance, leaving one undisturbed each time. That's also an interesting option to through into your thinking when comparing costs etc. I also will say again that careful, considered care of these devices may mean that many types give good service. You may find a Rena or TetraTek or other to your liking among the cannisters.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Lazerus]

Hi again....

I have read through this thread again without interruption and having read other threads from other sites also based on everything that has been said, think I have made my decision.

I am going to go for the Eheim External Filter Professional Complete Special Edition Model 2222...(or I may get the 2224 one) but either way this is the external filter for me.

Thank you so much everyone!

Its very hard for someone like myself who has never even held one of these in my hands or seen one running, to know about the pros & cons of using it on a day to day basis.....so I have been given invaluable advice as always based on personal expeirences.

Its been a real education!!!

I'll be dreaming about inlet pipes, and outlet pipe, blocks, tube, buckets & priming sticks etc

 

[jimmyringo]

Hope its good for you

 

[8inary]

im sure it will be perfect - good luck buddy

 

[waterdrop]

Uh-Oh, if it breaks, these guys are going to be all over me

No, seriously, I hope its going to be great. Tell me the tank size for the millionth time... maybe I can help re 22 or 24 model.

Be measuring your cabinet and looking around at plastic food storage boxes. What I like to do is know my cabinet limitations, the shelf where the cannister will sit below the tank (it needs to be below by the way) and then find one of those largish milky-white food storage things (we have brands like rubbermaid over here) and then I remove the lid and set the filter box in this so that if there was ever a minor spill or small disaster, there would at least be something to catch all or the beginning of it. I then use the leftover lid as a tray to hold wet stuff I take out of the tank when doing maintenance. You have to find a storage box large enough for the filter box but small enough to fit the cabinet shelf. Mine has always been bone dry, but hey!

~~waterdrop~~