Energy Prices and Winter

wasmewasntit

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The biggest insanity regarding the "green" movement in the UK

Not far from my flat is Drax power station. It was built to run on coal but the greenies decided that was very bad.

It now runs on wood pellets.

Yes...that is nice and green....BUT....and it truly is a BIG but...

The wood pellets come from Baltimore on bulk carriers 3 times a week to Lowestoft. They are then transferred to a huge diesel train to Drax.

The bulk carriers and the train basically cancel out the green credentials somewhat......and its way more expensive to run Drax on wood pellets compared to coal.

Multiple whammy really.
 

Naughts

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wood pellets.

Yes...that is nice and green....
The argument for that is contentious, even without factoring in the transport factor. Burning wood burps out carbon dioxide into the atmosphere and contributes to climate change just the same as non renewable energy sources.
 

StevenF

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Can't we ship them LNG from the US?
Yes but we don't have enough liquification facilities to satisfy the demand And it is questionable if there are enough LNG ships to deliver it. So it is not a quick solution and could cause US prices to increase.

The argument for that is contentious, even without factoring in the transport factor. Burning wood burps out carbon dioxide into the atmosphere and contributes to climate change just the same as non renewable energy sources.
If new trees are grown to replace the ons burned at the power plant The CO2 consumption of the new trees will be very close to the CO2 released by the burning trees. So no real effect on CO2 level in the atmosphere.

The global warming issue is mainly caused by burning of fossil fuels that were berries millions of years ago. I we just stopped burning things would improve .Trains cars and truckes can be powered by renewable electricity or nuclear power. And that would eliminate much of the problem. But we are not installing renewables fast enough and nuclear takes too long.

Fossil fuels are a brig driver of of the Russia invasion of Ukraine. The black sea is one of the last unexplored areas that could have oil and gas. And in the last decade there have been some significant oil and gas discovered. IF russia controls the entire coast line from the wester ukraine border to turkey, russia would control much of thee black sea.and could claim much of the oil and gas there.
 
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Wills

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Interesting video on YouTube about this topic.


Bill runs a cichlid room - in 2020 he was paying about £90 per month to run it, when he made the video I'd guess a few weeks ago he was paying £260 per month but in the comments he says todays announcement puts it upto £600 per month. I know this is extreme - he mentions he has a lot of tanks but is interesting.

He also said someone he knew had worked out it was costing £9.49 per month to run a 105 litre tank but that would not have been based on todays announcement.

Just trying to work out how much my tanks might cost to run but not sure on a couple of things.

Eg on my 100 litre I have a Biomaster 250 which is a 15W appliance and using this site https://www.sust-it.net/energy-calculator.php?tariff=57 on todays prices it is going to cost 6.61 pence per day or £1.80 for 30 days to run just the filter. I also have a 150 watt heater, but I don't know how long the heater will be on per day. Does anyone have a rough idea of how long per day the heater will run? For example on todays energy prices if its on for 12 hours its 33.3p per day or £9.90 per 30 days or if it was on 24 hours a day thats £19.80. Then my light is 52W but I run it at 40-50% power so does that mean it uses 50% less power or does the controller just dim the light? If I assume the worst and run it for 8 hours thats 7.5p per day or £2.10 per 30 days (so not as bad as I thought).

So worst case for my 100 litre is £23.70 per day if the heater is running 24 hours a day. Though if its 12 hours its £13.80 so this isnt too bad.

*record scratch* - just realised I worked that out on 2020 average prices so here goes the October 2022 figures

Filter is now 18.7p per day or £5.40 per month, light is now 21.6p or £6.30 per month and 12 hours of the heater is now 93.6p per day or £27.90 per month and 24 hours would be £1.87 per day or £56 per month.

So the lower cost is now £39.60 and the 24 hour heater is £67.60.....

For the 300 litre I am meant to be picking up very soon it could be a different story

It has a 30W Fluval FX4 for 1 day is 37p and 30 days is £11.10, the light is an Aquael Leddy 36W so 1 day is 14.9p or £4.50 per 30 days. So those 2 bits are £15.60 per month.

And now the heater... it has 2 300 watt heaters but I'm going to work out on 1 running for 12 or 24 hours as they will either be on or off. But not sure how to accurately judge it.

So 1 300 watt heater for 12 hours is £1.87 or £56.10 for 30 days and 24 hours is £3.74 per day or £112.20 per 30 days. Which means for a 300 litre tank a range of £71.70 - £127.80 per month.

Longer post with more maths than I intended but the ultimate question is - how long do you think a heater is on per day?

And I have to say - I am very sorry if my maths is wrong, and if it turns out I'll be spending 3p per month for all my tanks please tell me :)
 
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Wills

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Does anyone know a calculation on aquarium heat loss?
 

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Dang, with asking how long a heater will be on and figuring an aquarium's heat loss you are asking a pretty impossible question as there are so many variables such as room temperature, evaporation rates and if there bubbles. Evaporation and bubbles will both cause heat loss. Then there are factors such as heat gained through running internal filtration and heat put out by lights. You would need to know all these factors and, I'm sure, others, to even make a close estimate.

Now, if you really just want to know total energy usage something like the following might help.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DPJ3RGB/?tag=ff0d01-20
 
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Wills

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Dang, with asking how long a heater will be on and figuring an aquarium's heat loss you are asking a pretty impossible question as there are so many variables such as room temperature, evaporation rates and if there bubbles. Evaporation and bubbles will both cause heat loss. Then there are factors such as heat gained through running internal filtration and heat put out by lights. You would need to know all these factors and, I'm sure, others, to even make a close estimate.

Now, if you really just want to know total energy usage something like the following might help.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DPJ3RGB/?tag=ff0d01-20

Just looking for an average at the moment. My tank in particular wouldnt be much good as its open top with a mesh lid so I need to fix that for me but as an average I think we can probably find some kind of answer.

I asked someone elsewhere and they suggested that it 1 minute in every 10 could be accurate - but that device you've shared would really give some accuracy and help work out some base rates.

Wills
 

GaryE

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Talking with friends over there today, these rate hikes are going to be devastating for the aquarium hobby (and for ordinary working families). The UK hobby has struck me as a bit more active and developed than the US or Canada, but this is a body blow. Energy costs are going to hit very hard.
I wish I could offer helpful calculations, but any way you cut it, this hobby just became a lot more expensive for you guys.
 
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Wills

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Talking with friends over there today, these rate hikes are going to be devastating for the aquarium hobby (and for ordinary working families). The UK hobby has struck me as a bit more active and developed than the US or Canada, but this is a body blow. Energy costs are going to hit very hard.
I wish I could offer helpful calculations, but any way you cut it, this hobby just became a lot more expensive for you guys.
Definitely, just need to work out how much more expensive though.
 

Colin_T

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You could turn off all electrical appliances in the house except the fish tanks. Then go outside and record the numbers on the power meter.

Let the tanks run with lights and everything else for an hour and records the power meter numbers.

Then turn the tank lights off and record the numbers after another hour.

Then turn the appliances back on.

That should tell you approximately how much power is being used per hour with and without lights. Multiply the numbers by 12 hours to get power used for half a day with lights and without lights.
 

wasmewasntit

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Sorry but all the scaremongering annoys me and you can't have it both ways either.

On one hand you have the media screaming blue murder about energy costs

On the other hand you have the climate chummies screaming about how winters are getting warmer

Unless we start getting winters like 1963 then I shall not believe the estimates on energy bills.

However, since that is very unlikely to actually happen according to the global warming chummies....

The last decent snowfall here in York was in 2010 and I did not use the heating. Infact the heating stayed off since I moved to this flat in 2008

I got so fed up of paying standing charges for the gas and waiting for the doom merchants saying bad winter ahead that never happened that in 2018 I had the gas supply capped off

My flat has never gone under 16 / 60 degrees even with 4ft of snow outside that stayed 8 weeks in 2010

My all electric flat costs under £100 a month in electricity

I am sorry but I refuse to rise to these idiots in the media screaming 8 grand for energy bills......a roofless & windowless derelict mansion would not cost that much to heat

If people didn't live over their means with credit cards and loans, if people didn't constantly buy branded food and went with supermarket own brands, if people didn't insist on only designer clothing and went with cheaper shops own stuff, if people didn't keep having the most expensive appliances, TV subscriptions etc etc etc

Take responsibility for your own expenditure and waste

The so-called poverty in the UK is absolute bull poo when you compare it to the 1940's to 1960's and 1970's We have not reached the stage when kids eat raw spuds for tea and went to school with holes in their shoes and darned socks and clothes.......no....kids are still eating decent meals, wearing their Nike trainers and labelled clothing "cos Joe Bloggs down the street has it so my kid has to have it too"

Generations now are spendthrift. Some high bills will give people a wake up call and not before time.
 
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Wills

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You could turn off all electrical appliances in the house except the fish tanks. Then go outside and record the numbers on the power meter.

Let the tanks run with lights and everything else for an hour and records the power meter numbers.

Then turn the tank lights off and record the numbers after another hour.

Then turn the appliances back on.

That should tell you approximately how much power is being used per hour with and without lights. Multiply the numbers by 12 hours to get power used for half a day with lights and without lights.
Good idea I think the gadget Jaylach shared would do the same thing but one plug at a time I run my tank off one multi plug (with the right kind of power rating) so I could put that device at the wall and see what happens.
 
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Wills

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Sorry but all the scaremongering annoys me and you can't have it both ways either.

On one hand you have the media screaming blue murder about energy costs

On the other hand you have the climate chummies screaming about how winters are getting warmer

Unless we start getting winters like 1963 then I shall not believe the estimates on energy bills.

However, since that is very unlikely to actually happen according to the global warming chummies....

The last decent snowfall here in York was in 2010 and I did not use the heating. Infact the heating stayed off since I moved to this flat in 2008

I got so fed up of paying standing charges for the gas and waiting for the doom merchants saying bad winter ahead that never happened that in 2018 I had the gas supply capped off

My flat has never gone under 16 / 60 degrees even with 4ft of snow outside that stayed 8 weeks in 2010

My all electric flat costs under £100 a month in electricity

I am sorry but I refuse to rise to these idiots in the media screaming 8 grand for energy bills......a roofless & windowless derelict mansion would not cost that much to heat

If people didn't live over their means with credit cards and loans, if people didn't constantly buy branded food and went with supermarket own brands, if people didn't insist on only designer clothing and went with cheaper shops own stuff, if people didn't keep having the most expensive appliances, TV subscriptions etc etc etc

Take responsibility for your own expenditure and waste

The so-called poverty in the UK is absolute bull poo when you compare it to the 1940's to 1960's and 1970's We have not reached the stage when kids eat raw spuds for tea and went to school with holes in their shoes and darned socks and clothes.......no....kids are still eating decent meals, wearing their Nike trainers and labelled clothing "cos Joe Bloggs down the street has it so my kid has to have it too"

Generations now are spendthrift. Some high bills will give people a wake up call and not before time.

Try to ignore the media and listen to the energy companies who are giving you exact pence per kilowatt hour and understand that has just increased by 80% that’s just a fact no opinion.

I don’t see any harm and I think you’d agree in working out how much our tanks cost to run in any day and age though? If my maths are correct my three tanks could cost over £180 a month to run so I will need to make a choice between them and eating raw spuds.

Wills
 

wasmewasntit

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I had an email from British Gas the other day. They supply my electricity (I have no gas) and as of November 2020 I have been on a fixed tariff that runs out in November 2023.

Big splashy email telling me that energy prices are increasing but that it will not affect me since I am on a fixed tariff and that after their usual 3 month energy monitoring of my smart meter "good news...your bills are reducing as you are not using as much electricity as was first estimated when you signed up to the tariff, so your payments will decrease. You are currently £355 in credit after adjustments"

I don't do direct debit or card meter.

I save up each month and chuck as much as I can onto the electricity account...after filling both freezers etc.

That £355 will easily cover the next quarterly bill that is due in November with some left over but by the time that bill is released I will have added around £300 which with cover the February bill plus some.

I have 2 TVs....one 43 inch in the lounge and one 47 inch in the bedroom. Bought and paid for in cash, not credit. Saved up for both. The one in the bedroom is 15 years old, a Philips LCD with the top 5 rows of pixels burnt out so its got black smudges across the top of the picture and the the TV switches off about 10 minutes after I turn it off with the remote control...its a bit tired but its still working, the screen might have knackered pixels here and there but 99% of the picture is perfectly fine. It'll not be replaced til it dies completely. I suspect other people would have replaced it by now, maybe at 5 years old when the 4K TVs came out...cos you got to keep up with the Jones's haven't you.

Well my actual surname is Jones....so people can keep up with me if they wish but they won't be getting posh stuff, its bog standard basics for me I'm afraid :lol:
 

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