Endler And Normal Guppy Breeding?

[picklesquidly101]

Hallo!  Im new to this forum, so hopefully I'll find it very helpful.
Anyways, now my first question X3
 
I recently wen't to my local Petsmart to go get some new guppies for breeding when I came across some beautiful new fish I've never seen before.  At first it looked like a teeny tetra!  I did further research to find this was some sort of Endler guppy.  I decided to buy two males and take them home.
 
I'm now very curious to know if you can cross-breed Endlers and Normal/fancy guppies.  I understand that Endlers are an endangered species (that really saddened me when I read about that, they're such beautiful little fish) and some people think that it 'dilutes the gene pool' if you create hybrids  with this fish.  I'd love to use them in breeding, but first off, Im not sure if I can breed them at all, since they're seperate subspecies, and if I do, I don't know if its okay to do that, since reading about how their straints should be kept pure.  What do you think?

 

[stanleo]

They can be crossbred and the offspring will be fertile. Now, I know this because I got an Endler/guppy hybrid and when I got it I specifically asked the girl (who is the only one I deal with because she knows her fish!) if the offspring of these matings are hardy. She said yes and in fact they are hardier than guppies. So I bought one with 2 other Endlers (and luckily a very small juvenile got into the bag by mistake) So I got them home and all seemed fine until 3 days later BAM! The hybrid was dead for no apparent reason and my other 3 endlers (pure breds) are thriving. Take that as you will.
 
They are really nice fish. I hadn't heard that they are endangered and judging from how many my LFS has in stock all the time, I wonder if that's true.

 

[picklesquidly101]

They can be crossbred and the offspring will be fertile. Now, I know this because I got an Endler/guppy hybrid and when I got it I specifically asked the girl (who is the only one I deal with because she knows her fish!) if the offspring of these matings are hardy. She said yes and in fact they are hardier than guppies. So I bought one with 2 other Endlers (and luckily a very small juvenile got into the bag by mistake) So I got them home and all seemed fine until 3 days later BAM! The hybrid was dead for no apparent reason and my other 3 endlers (pure breds) are thriving. Take that as you will.
 
They are really nice fish. I hadn't heard that they are endangered and judging from how many my LFS has in stock all the time, I wonder if that's true.

 
I see.  Poor little guy.  Well, hopefully that doesn't happen to any of my frys, da?  xP
 
Yes, they're quite endangered, in the wild.  They're threatened by a pollution problem and are almost gone.  Lucky though, us fishkeepers are keeping this species alive and well populated in captivity.
 Maybe where you live there are plently, but I was lucky to find these guys here where I live.

 

[stanleo]

The hybrids are beautiful. And maybe they are hardy I just got one that wasn't I know that happens all the time. They have the coloration of the endlers with the fins of guppies. Pretty cool looking.
 
Welcome to the forum BTW! There are loads of people here and they are a lot more knowledgeable than I am!
 
That is the big plus of this hobby. Keeping species alive through captive breeding.

 

[picklesquidly101]

Personally, I think pure endlers are beautiful as they are, but I'd also love to see what kind of colors I could get by cross breeding. I might be a bit young for doing such hard work with live animals, but I'm really excited to see what kinds of beautiful new fish I can create.

It's really wonderful knowing you're helping a species throught something you enjoy too. ^^

Thank you! You've been really helpful, and that's well appreciated!

 

[stanleo]

Your welcome! Its nice to help someone on here considering so many have helped me. Might suggest making a journal of your efforts? Include pics, they get the most replies and loads of people can help you along the way. I prolly can't because I have pretty much exhausted my knowledge on this subject! I am a bit of newbie myself. Only been doing this for 2 yrs.

 

[picklesquidly101]

Haha, same here. I'll need all the help I can get.

A journal could be a good idea. Would I post thy somewhere the the live bearers section?

 

[*pete*]

Have fun cross breeding your Guppies and Endlers, there are plenty of people in the hobby keeping the strains pure. Many of us on here would like to see how the offspring turn out, just enjoy them.
 
Welcome aboard from another Guppy lover.

 

[stanleo]

Either there or in the hybrid section. You would have better luck getting responses in the livebearers IMO.

 

[picklesquidly101]

Thank you, Pete!

I found a sub forum for journals and photographs in here. I'll start one with pictures tomorrow! Wish me luck! XD

 

[HAMBONE]

I currently has three different types of endlers(diff color patterns) with three fancy females in my breeding tank..
 
I'll occasionally grow a fry or two out to size to add to my other tanks, but they're mostly for a food source for my angel fish... guppy fries makes them grow big

 

[Essjay]

In the UK at least, virtually every endler on sale in a shop is already an endler-guppy hybrid. The only way to guarantee an endler is pure is to buy them from a registered keeper.

 

[picklesquidly101]

Im quite sure the ones I have a purebred, I don't see anything like an ordinary guppy in my little guys.

 

[Essjay]

Just because an endler look like like an endler doesn't mean it is 100% pure endler. I have some male endlers and they all look just like endlers but I know they are not pure.
 
I bought a trio (1 male & 2 pregnant females) from a private seller. He called them 'black neon endlers' and he told me he had selectively bred them from a sport of the 'neon' endler, a known endler-guppy hybrid. I also bought three males from various shops - one looks just like a black bar, another like a snake chest while the third is a tiger endler. Tiger endlers are also known to be endler-guppy hybrids.
I kept the females separately from the males. As the females were already pregnant, they gave birth in their separate tank and as the fry matured I separated the males and gave them and the two females away. I then used the female fry to breed with the black bar and snake chest males, again giving away most of the male offspring and later all the females. I now have several black bar and snake chest males. They all look pure endler though they can't be as they were bred from females known to be endler-guppy hybrids.
 
Also, all the male fry look like their father no matter what the maternal grandfather was. The male fry of the black bar male and the 'black neon' female all looked like black bars, and the male fry of the snake chest male and 'black neon' female all looked like snake chests. And the male fry from a cross between a female black bar/black neon cross and a male snake chest all look like snake chests.
That's why I gave all the females away and just kept some of the males - cross breeding them didn't produce male offspring that were a mixture of colour patterns.

 

[picklesquidly101]

Ah, I see.  So the only way to really know if your Endler is purebred or a hybrid is to ask whoever bred the guppies, then.