Empty 30L Biorb

[Ryefish]

Hey
My first time posting here, so be kind lol. My friend gave me an empty 30L BiOrb a month or so ago, which hasn't been used in some time, and with it came just the heater. Basically, I have a lot to fix before I can even use this thing. I know that BiOrbs aren't the most popular tanks, but i have only ever kept cold water fish, and fancy giving tropical a try - without spending a bomb on a new tank etc. I am taking advantage of this new free tank. It is going to be some time until i can actually set this up properly (lack of funds and a mother who thinks i have too many pets already ), so i figure i may aswell get all my research sorted out first.

My ideal set-up would be a few plants (probably a java fern and maybe another hardy low-light needing plant) and some small shoaling fish, and preferably one or two larger fish if i could push it. I have figured that the maximum size of fish i could/would want to have is between 1.5" and 2".

Some questions i have:

Filtration:
The filter inside the tank is pretty much empty except for a mangy bit of round sponge - it was dark orange and rock hard when i was first given the tank and im guessing it needs replacing (doesn't really take a genius to work that out lol)
Do i need to buy a new filter pack from Reef One or is there any way i can modify it?
Do you need to be able to wash/change the sponge/filter material? I never really considered bacteria and stuff in water when i was a child with a few goldfish in a tank (they all ended up in the pond lol)

Planting & Substrate:
What substrate is ideal for plants and for fish?
and where would i get said substrate from? (i have failed at finding some except for those neon rock stuff)
Would a moss ball survive in my tank?
I have no idea how much substrate i would put in this tank because of the filter being in the middle - so if anyone could tell me that, it would be much appreciated


Fish:
How many fish could i actually get away with having in this tank without overcrowding?
I was told i would only be able to fit in 4 or 5 Tetra's, but i have seen a few people with 30L BiOrbs and a few fish in on here.
The Aquatic shop has these Cherry Shrimps in, that are approximately 5mm long. Would they live well with fish and would i have to wait for them to grow bigger if i decided to buy some? If it was a good idea to get some, would it be better to have them first and then fish?

Any help or information would be much appreciated
Thanks

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Ryefish and Welcome to TFF

You might make a very good tropical fish hobbyists because even though you aren't quite ready financially, you've found a place like this and stated that you think you'd like to research and learn. This hobby works well with patient planning and learning and it goes along well with the ultimately relaxing nature of the the goals too!

So many questions! The members will no doubt chew on all of them but I'll try to comment on a few to get you started. Yes, the Biorb has several of its own special problems. Getting right to specific ones: the kit initially comes (and the replacement media probably too) with a mixture of carbon and zeolite (whiteish chips usually) and we usually recommend against using zeolite because it chemically removes ammonia, which is the food for the two species of bacteria we want to grow (in fact work very hard to grow!) in our all-important "biofilter." The carbon is a thing for special needs and we don't need it in yours for now either, so its only the sponge you'll need. It would be ideal to find a simple replacement sponge already cut to the right size and shape but you could also consider cutting some other sponge that's cheaper and seems to be for the same purpost in the fish store.. it might be cheaper. The sponge will be some of your biological and mechanical filtration. In the biorbs it may very well be that the intent is for the substrate to be large and serve as what we call an "undergroung filter" or "UGF" for short. If this is the case with yours then sand will not be an option. Some people modify their biorbs to handle a different filter, but I don't know what that is.. but there are threads out there somewhere.

Figuring out the right filter (hopefully some biorb experienced members will happen along!) and learning about filters and cycling should be a first order of business, even before figuring out plant and fish things. Learning the nitrogen cycle is a must.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Ryefish]

Thanks for the reply

I have been reading about cycling for a few weeks now, and i have found where i can get ammonia (after a long hunt). I am writing a shopping list as i go along lol. I am going to plan on starting cycling in late February if possible. I just need to find the right place for my tank first. I will ask in the aquatic store for some sponge. I can be quite handy with a craft knife lol.
I have had an underwater filter in a cold water tank long ago, with some of the normal gravel. Can plants live in just gravel or do they NEED sand? Im still struggling to find what plants actually grow in.


What does 'mature filter media' do to a cycle? how does the bacteria grow from this media?
re-phrasing this after reading the last bit of the fishless cycling method post. If i were to get 'mature filter media', does it matter where this goes in the tank or what format it came in? does it have to be near or on the filter sponge? or will the bacteria begin to grow there themselves? does the media have to stay in the tank forever?

So, if you get the right bacteria growing you don't need to replace the filter every few weeks, only wash the sponge in old tank water?

I have kept fish forever but i have never heard of cycling bacteria until i started looking into tropical lol (we have a new filtration system on our pond that has a nice build up of stuff in the bottom of it lol but that has only been a recent buy)

 

[furry catfish]

30 litres is like 7 gallons,isn't it? have a look round and see what you like,off the top of my head,badis,scarlet badis,most shrimp,betta,african dwarf frog,endlers,guppies obviously not together.


good luck with what ever you choose





chris

 

[OldMan47]

The sponge filter can be a very forgiving filter. It is easy to clean and will hold a very large bacterial colony. Sponges are quickly becoming my favorite filters. If you are going with low light only plants, don't fret much about the substrate. Almost anything will work fine with those plants. I am trying to get more into growth of moderate light plants and am using potting soil covered by a fine gravel/coarse sand as a substrate. That is really not needed with low light levels. There are lots of small fish that would work well in a tiny tank like yours. They include golden teddies, endlers, Heterandria formosa and many of the killies. I even keep a few guppies in a tank not much bigger than yours, a 38 litre one. The tank would also work great as a shrimp breeding tank. Cherry shrimp can often be kept with any small fish that would not see them immediately as food.

 

[Ryefish]

Thanks for the replies.

I am still umming and ah'ing about the fish. I think when the time comes, i will have to look like a nerd and take my book to the aquatic store and read up about the fish they have while im there, lol!


We have these round plastic things under the three layers of sponge in our out-of-pond filter in the garden, would i be able to use one of those in my tank while cycling (as mature media) or would they be full of nasties? I have no idea what is growing in that box lol. We have had the filter system since the summer (my mum got fed up with algae and murky water, and our old pumps kept breaking and the fish were gasping at the surface) we've had clean water since. It is obviously cold water, and we have 55 goldfish and 3 tench in the pond, would that make a difference? My mum said i can use if it i want to.

Roll on student loans so i can start buying things for this!! I am asking for things for my birthday in February aswell (hence wanting to start cycling around then)

 

[OldMan47]

A big help for a cycle would be a piece of that sponge from the goldfish filter. A piece of that could get your new filter up to speed in a very short time.

 

[Ryefish]

A big help for a cycle would be a piece of that sponge from the goldfish filter. A piece of that could get your new filter up to speed in a very short time.

I don't think i can cut a piece of sponge off it...

but, if i went and bought a piece of sponge to go inside my filter for my BiOrb and put it inside the pond filter, would it have its own bacteria colony when i put it into my tank in say two months time?
Would this work?

 

[OldMan47]

It might well work if the temperatures in your area are warmer than mine. Where I am, a sponge in a filter outdoors would quickly become an ice block.

 

[Ryefish]

It might well work if the temperatures in your area are warmer than mine. Where I am, a sponge in a filter outdoors would quickly become an ice block.

haha at the minute, i can't actually see the filter. It is under a heck of a lot of snow. I don't think the inside of it is frozen though because there is a constant current of water running through it. Only one way to find out i suppose. Looks like i will be getting very cold and very wet

...or maybe my mam will she is all up for me spending time putting pieces of sponge outside for a few months if it means i can't set up my tank yet LOL!

 

[Ryefish]

I found some new airstones at the pet shop the other day so i picked some up.

I have a tub of smooth black stones - they are from Au Naturale and the tub says "Decorative River Stones" - would there be an issue using something like this in the bottom of a fish tank?

I still have some Christmas money left and was planning on getting the rest of the things for my tank.
The pet shop sells thermometers but im not sure if i should pay for a small digital one, or for a normal glass one with a suction cup on the top. i think a glass one might be easier to read in the globe shape of my tank, but i'm not sure yet

This may be *the* stupidest question you have ever heard, but does bottled Ammonia have an expiry date? Would i be alright buying a bottle now and keeping it in a cupboard, or would it be better to buy it nearer the time i start my cycle?


Still unsure of when my cycle will begin. The deal i made with my mam was that i would either go down a number in pets (i only have four rats and my boyfriend's parakeet, she acts like i have a zoo), or my boyfriend would move out before i could have the space to set up this tank. Well, *fingers crossed* my eldest rat is going to make it to his third birthday in 3 months so it shouldn't be the pets side of it. My boyfriend is going to view some flats next week ...so you never know

 

[waterdrop]

The ammonia should keep just fine, so if you've found the right type (bubbles should go away in 2 to 3 seconds just like plain water, rather than foam) with no dyes, fragrances, surfactants or soaps then it wouldn't hurt to go ahead and get it.

The river rocks should be fine. We only worry about the ones that can add to the mineral hardness of the water. You can drip some household vinegar on them and make sure they don't fizz.

Since your planning is pretty far in front of actions, let me mention that this 30L biorb you have started the planning around is, in itself, a potentially pretty limiting thing. Many of our beginners with very small tanks like that are rather shocked at how limited their fish choices are in that small a space. Likewise, larger volumes of water are more forgiving of beginner mistakes because, for example, a buildup of toxins is slower in a larger volume of water. In a very small tank, things can change rather rapidly.

I'm just saying this because sometimes a very plain rectangular 10 or 15g or 20g with a small fluval internal and simple light lid can be just about as cheap and easier to learn on than a little biorb with its odd filtration etc. But I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just giving you things to think about. We've helped with any number of successful biorbs.

The term "mature media" (as we use it) refers to the media (eg. the sponge) plus the bacteria (which look like a brown stain on it.) This is not to be confused with "media" in the sense of a petri dish of stuff that bacteria could grow on. In other words, the mature media is not the food for the bacteria, it is the bacteria themselves and the material they are adhered to. It is not useful to put the mature media (MM) just anywhere in the tank. Instead, it is best for it to be actually in the filter and ideally just ahead (in the water flow path) of the biomedia you wish to be exposed to the new bacteria. So, for instance, an ideal would be a scrap of old sponge with bacteria growing all over it that the filter water flows path and then goes right into the new sponge that came with the new filter as the very next chunk of stuff. That way, if a little chunk of biofilm with a couple of bacteria in it breaks loose from the MM, it will hopefully get trapped on the new sponge and start to grow there.

As for plant substrates, there are many interesting things to learn and approaches to take but for the kind of thing you're planning its likely you will take advantage of the fact that submerged plants can take most, if not all of their nutrients (there are about 17 nutrients they need) directly from the water or via their roots but still from the water. For this type of approach, gravel or sand, either one is fine. One issue for you though may be whether the "gravel" is supposed to be part of the functioning of the biorb filter. I believe I recall that the biorb filter is really an "undergravel filter" (or UGF) as we call them and the little sponge part is just a supplement. I think they have a web site.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Ryefish]

I came across the "where to buy Ammonia" thread on here a few weeks ago and i am going to check out the stuff you can buy at Boots. I also came across someone saying to add vinegar to gravel/rocks and if they fizz then don't use them - so i gave it a try and it didn't fizz.

As far as my fish choices, i have been looking around for the past few months at what type of fish i could hold in this tank, and have decided that i will more than likely have a Betta, a shoal of small neon tetra's, or a shoal of harlequin rasbora's... or just some cherry shrimp. A few tiny fish will look cool i think I once saw a tank in an aquatic store in Worthing and it had a load of tiny fish in (i LOVED it), and its stuck itself in my mind for the past 6 years.

In the future, i will more than likely "upgrade" this tank, even if it is just to a 10G rectangular tank.

I am just enjoying learning about cycles and water etc at the minute. This tank was free, so i figure i can learn off it - even if it does have a stupid filtration system (i could NOT get my head around it the other day), and is a stupid shape and doesn't hold too much water - then i may aswell. I just laugh at my friends mum who actually paid money for this.


****


So my mature media... I understand the purpose of it, and that it is what the bacteria has grown/is growing on. Inside the pond filter, we have 3 layers of sponge, and underneath the sponge, we have these round plastic things that are covered in brown slime (im assuming this is the bacteria?). I can get a picture tomorrow if needed.
My mum would be PISSED if i cut a bit of sponge off her £100 filter system and the sponge in there is way too big to fit in my tank - but the plastic things have more brown on them. If i got a hand full of the things with brown on and shot them in my tank, did my cycle, waited til it said it was done and then took out the plastic things one at a time over say a week and did water tests to monitor everything, would this work? would the bacteria be able to get onto my gravel and sponge filter?

 

[Ryefish]

My sister has an unused tank. They aren't sure of the size but my brother-in-law recons 40L (i am pretty sure it is bigger). They used to have it set up tropical but sold the fish and left it empty after they moved house. My BIL was wanting to get rid of it back then but they still have it.

HHHMMM..i may be able to sweet talk them into letting me have it when i get my own place in a few years, or if not sooner ^^

 

[OldMan47]

The plastic bioballs are a fine biological filter media if you have the room for them. I have some in a canister filter and they seem to work well. The hard part about using them in a small fish tank is finding a way to put them into the water flow path in a way that they will transfer the bacteria to the new filter. This is one of the balls that I have, but there are many different ones made.