Eco-Complete, Flourite Black Sand, Or Aquasoil

[eaglesaquarium]

Hello folks!
 
I've got a new light on its way to me as we speak - AquaSun LED HO Aquarium Fixture  (I really wish they had PAR readings!)
 
With this light I can always switch out the modules for this: Plant Module
 
Anyway, I'm not looking for crazy growth from my plants, just nice steady growth without a whole lot of fuss. 
 
 
 
 
The subtrate of this tank has frustrated me for a while, its old flourite mixed with sand...  Its unsightly and I really dislike it!   Anyway, I will be moving this tank in the next few weeks, which makes this the ideal time to change out the substrate, since I don't plan on moving the tank with anything in it...
 
 
So, the question is:  Eco-Complete, Flourite Black Sand or a combination of both?
(My stocking will include cories at some point, so keep that in mind as you ponder the question.)
 
The plants I intend will be the ones I have now, and more of the same... maybe mixing in a few stems for fun.  Amazon swords, crypts, java ferns, anubias, bacopa, dwarf sag, and maybe some wisteria, cabomba, and/or ludwigia.   

 

[Byron]

Save your money.  i decided to experiment with an enriched substrate four years ago and found it a total waste of money in addition to having detriments.  After two years, I tore the tank down and replaced the Flourite with play sand, and now two years after that, the plants are just as good if not better, and the fish are definitely better off as I'll explain.  As to mixing substrates, do not do this; the smaller will end up on the bottom and the larger on top.
 
Not all enriched substrates may be the same, but both Eco-Complete and Flourite are basically so.  I had expected that one of these would provide nutrients without the need to fertilize directly as I had been doing in my planted tanks (I have seven).  Cutting to the chase, after two years I found the plant growth in the 70g with Flourite was equal to that in the other tanks but only if I fertilized this tank the same.  I was adding liquid (Flourish Comprehensive) twice weekly, and Flourish Tabs every three months.  So there was no discernible benefit.
 
Second problem was the sharpness.  I held both Flourite and Eco-Complete in my hands, and thought Flourite was less abrasive so I went with that.  With a few weeks, the corys in this tank all developed mouth issues and barbel loss; one panda cory even lost about a third of its mouth.  I removed the corys to a play sand tank and they recovered nicely, fortunately; now almost four years later, the one panda still looks comical with part of its mouth missing, but the barbels regenerated a bit and he has obviously been eating fine.  A catfish importer/breeder subsequently warned me of never using these substrates with corys, wise advice.  Corys need to sift the sand through their gills, as they do in their habitat which always have either sand or mud substrates, and play sand allows them to do this without damage.
 
I would go with regular play sand; nothing is less abrasive for substrate fish, and plants grow very well in it.  I use liquid fertilizers in all my tanks (six have play sand, one fine gravel) and substrate tabs only next to the larger sword plants, red tiger lotus and aponogeton in three tanks.  Plants can only assimilate nutrients from the water via their roots and leaves, and water naturally flows through the substrate.  Pictured below is the 70g now, two years after removing the Flourite for play sand.  It cost me $14 for two bags of play sand, compared to $180 for the Flourite which is now dumped in the back garden.
 
Byron.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Yeah... I have used play sand, flourite, ecocomplete and petco's black sand... all with cories.    The cories in the tank with the play sand and flourite had issues with their barbels, due to the flourite coming to the top.   However, the cories in the ecocomplete and Petco black sand never had an issue and their barbels were the longest I'd ever had with cories... they almost looked like Rollie Fingers!

 
 
 
I'm not as concerned about the plant growth, honestly, as the look and the cories.   I know the plants don't 'need' the special substrate. But, I 'want' a dark substrate.  I've never used the flourite sand, and that's the one I'm most curious about.   
 
Thanks for your input, Byron.  I have considered the cost and the play sand, and I haven't ruled it out yet (I even have a bag of play sand already in my back yard just in case I decide to go that way.  But, the allure of the darker substrate is strong.

 

[Byron]

There are issues with a black substrate...
 
It shows up every little speck of detritus.  I have never seen such a dirty-looking substrate, something I never have with my fine gravel or play sand substrates.  Think about it...how obvious is a waterspot on a black car, compared to another lighter colour?
 
Under fluorescent lighting, the black is not black but more of a very dark dull grey.  I was very disappointed from my expectations.
 
B.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Well, I've had black substrates, and I've had play sand substrates... honestly, the sand showed it more to my eye than the black.  Maybe that's because of my BN... not sure.  
 
It seems we have different tastes, you and I.  

 
 
As for the black not being black... that doesn't bother me.  I just want dark, it doesn't have to be 'black'.

 

[Byron]

Different tastes are fine.  I just wanted to point out my experiences.  And BTW, I have heard from several planted tank aficionados that Eco-Complete and Flourite are a waste of money, for what it's worth.  They do not actually release any nutrients of themselves.  I have yet to discern any benefits.
 
Play sand is actually quite dark, a very dark grey when dry; here again the fluorescent lighting through water makes it appear lighter.  I was quite surprised when I first used it, as it was almost black sitting in the empty tank (wet).
 
My approach is simply natural, as close to the environment of the fish that I can reasonably achieve, keeping in mind the restrictions of an enclosed aquarium.  Soft mud for example is not very practical, so fine play sand suffices.  The aquascape is for the benefit of the fish, not my personal tastes.  And in this regard, play sand is about as close in appearance as you can get to most Amazonian stream substrates (those that are sand).
 
B.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

And I appreciate your approach and your opinion.  My goal is to build the aquascape to meet both the needs of my fish and my personal taste.  I never want to put something into my tank that would cause my fish a problem.  
 
 
The play sand around your parts in Canada may be very different from the play sand available at my local hardware store.  Here is it basically a pale yellow and under fluorescent light is very nearly white - which could account for our difference of opinion concerning it.
 
 
I suppose I could look into a different type of 'inert' sand.  The leveling sand that we have is nearly dark grey, but it is designed to compact, so that is likely a poor solution.   I've heard of folks using pool filter sand - which would have to remain porous for water to pass through it efficiently, but the color is normally white... which I am trying to avoid.  
 
 
Oh the decisions that must be made!
 
 
 
 
Here's another option, and maybe it would be better:
 
http/www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=680
 
Aquasoil...  although it is supposed to release ammonia briefly into the water column... which might be a bit of a concern for my particular situation.
 
(ouch!  $30 per bag, would need 2, and $41 shipping! )

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Just some input on not sand planted substrates. Over the years I have an assortment of planted tanks from low to high light and everything in between. I am in Byron's camp when it comes to planted substrates. The only difference is I have always used gravel. I have pretty much used the same formula over all these years.
 
I have tried assorted sized gravels and the ones that work the best are those with the smallest  sizes. My favorite is Estes Bits of Walnut gravel (walnut is the color not the material). I set up all the substrate the same way. I cover the bottom with a thing layer of the gravel I then sprinkle some laterite onto it and then a bit more gravel and then a bit more laterite. The goal is to have 1 oz. of the laterite for every gallon of water the tank holds and to have it all mixed into the bottom 1 inch of the gravel. (If I ever do a sand bottom panted tank, I would do the same.) On top of this goes the rest of my gravel to a depth as close to 3 inches as is reasonable for size tank I am using. Then the tank gets planted.
 
I do not add any substrate ferts initially. I want to allow the newly planted to grow more roots and I do not want these roots to risk fertilizer burn. After about a month I then do my first gravel ferts and tend to replenish them every 3 months or so. I do as little vacuuming in such tanks as I can. I want mulm, it is a plants best friend, a cycles best friend and a great friend of healthy tanks. And over time more and more mulm will develop and your plants and your tank should be a happy ecosystem.
 
What I have refused to do is succumb to the mania for needless expensive product versions of things, especially ADA stuff. But if it makes one feel better to use this stuff and the cost is not an issue, then by all means, go for it. People who use this stuff seem to like it so who am I to say don't do it. All I will say is one does not have to use it to have healthy vibrant plants.
 
One last comment on all this. There is a difference between what is feasible based on how many tanks and of what sizes are involved. When I had a dozen planted tanks from 5.5 to 75 gallons, it was a lot more economical to do things as i outlined above than had I had only one or two tanks that were not overly large.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Appreciate the input.  I had forgotten about laterite!  

 

[Byron]

Yes JD, our play sand here is different.  It is a dark grey mix (has granules of dark grey, black, tan and some white).  The nice thing about "play" sand is it is not in the least rough.  Paver sands and such are not processed for this purpose, so one has to watch out there.  The brand here is Quikrete, which I believe is available in the US in some places anyway.  On another forum, one of our members contacted them directly concerning how they processed the sand, concerning other ingredients that might get added in by accident, and the response from Quikrete was posted in which they explained their processing of all sands, with strict controls regarding playsand.  We were all satisfied.
 
Years ago my local fish store got hold of some fine gravel that was labelled "sand" and it was ideal.  Haven't seen it for a couple decades now.
 
My only comment on TTA's post is that when one is intending corys, it is better to have true sand rather than gravel.  I had corys (wild caught species) over fine gravel for many years, but since I switched to sand about five years ago now, I would never recommend gravel for corys.  They just cannot sift it through their gills the way they can with sand.  And when Heiko Bleher, Ian Fuller and others with such experience say sand only, I tend to listen.

   But substrate fish aside, I do like fine gravel.
 
I tried the laterite once in a tank, under the fine gravel, but again didn't notice any difference to the plants from the other large tank, and I had the same sword species in both.  However, it probably can't hurt.  Though an excess of iron getting into the water column can cause algae to increase.  Iron is after all a micro-nutrient for plants, and it is usually in sufficient levels in comprehensive preparations or dry.
 
Byron.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Quikrete play sand is the color you are describing?   hmmm.... that might be my winner!
 
 
Now to source it.

 

[Byron]

Quikrete play sand is the color you are describing?   hmmm.... that might be my winner!
 
 
Now to source it.

 
In Canada, Home Depot and Lowe's carry it.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I just checked my play sand.  It is Quikrete, but its the same stuff that I had used before, and its just not as dark as I'd prefer it.  Thanks though.

 

[NickAu]

 
Save your money With the carib eco

I had the stuff in my tank and hated it, I did not notice my plants doing any better, I found the stuff to be messy and fish could stir up the rubbish in it easily making the water dirty.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

A few solutions seem to be presenting themselves to my situation...
 
Play sand:  
Pros - extremely affordable in large quantities, I am familiar with it.
Cons - requires massive amounts of washing, not the right color
 
Black sand:
Pros - has the look I want, will still allow for plant growth, and cories can sift it.
Cons - finding the right stuff, cost
 
Well, after a chat with my friend Alasse... I've got two more options:
1 - black quartz sand.  A source online offers it for a mere $25 for 50 lbs.  Shipping on the other hand pushes that WAY up.  

2 - Tahitian Moon Sand.  Hard to believe it took me this long to consider it.  20 Lbs for roughly $20.
3 - National Geographic Black sand.  20 Lbs for $20.  
 
I'm leaning hard towards the Tahitian Moon Sand.  Alasse has a friend with it, with cories, and the cories can sift it through their gills, and have quite nice barbels...  win-win-win, as I see it.
 
 
I might have a solution!