Dying Swordtail?

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Be very careful how you dispose of assassin snails. These are illegal to have in some states of the USA because if they happen to get into the ecosystem they will kill off the beneficial native snails. Make sure they are absolutely dead/destroyed before disposing of them, and for safety not down the toilet/drain.

The small so-called "pest" snails are actually your best friend in an aquarium with fish. Snails eat organics, meaning all the fish excrement, breaking it down faster for the various bacteria to handle. And as they can get everywhere, they are very thorough. I have Malaysian Livebearing Snails and pond snails in all my tanks, dozens if not hundreds. Very helpful and beneficial. Their numbers show just how much organics the fish produce and from very controlled feeding too.

Thanks for the info, Bryon. I completely agree about the high nitrate levels. But, I have had this problem with other livebearers in the past and my gh levels then were 180-220 ppm. Right now my water parameters are not the best because of the pleco. Besides gh and nitrate, could this be a disease or is this probably water-related? (I did just have a platy die 3 wks ago and she had been sick with the same symptoms for a while).

As I said previously, there is the possibility of some other issue here, but I am not much good with disease so I stayt out; bad advice on treatments can make it much worse as any substance added to the water gets inside fish and stresses them, so unless it is the best treatment it is best avoided.

But, again, the GH and the nitrates are both weakening the fish, so it makes it easier for other issues to take hold.
 
Be very careful how you dispose of assassin snails. These are illegal to have in some states of the USA because if they happen to get into the ecosystem they will kill off the beneficial native snails. Make sure they are absolutely dead/destroyed before disposing of them, and for safety not down the toilet/drain
Ohh, thanks for that advice. I think I'm just going to return them since I don't know what's wrong with them. I have over 50 pond snails and they keep attacking my live plants. That's my only thing against them.:) Are mystery snails as beneficial?

I'm definitely going to work on my water quality. Thank you!
 
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Be very careful how you dispose of assassin snails. These are illegal to have in some states of the USA because if they happen to get into the ecosystem they will kill off the beneficial native snails. Make sure they are absolutely dead/destroyed before disposing of them, and for safety not down the toilet/drain.

The small so-called "pest" snails are actually your best friend in an aquarium with fish. Snails eat organics, meaning all the fish excrement, breaking it down faster for the various bacteria to handle. And as they can get everywhere, they are very thorough. I have Malaysian Livebearing Snails and pond snails in all my tanks, dozens if not hundreds. Very helpful and beneficial. Their numbers show just how much organics the fish produce and from very controlled feeding too.



As I said previously, there is the possibility of some other issue here, but I am not much good with disease so I stayt out; bad advice on treatments can make it much worse as any substance added to the water gets inside fish and stresses them, so unless it is the best treatment it is best avoided.

But, again, the GH and the nitrates are both weakening the fish, so it makes it easier for other issues to take hold.
@Byron has a very good point. These are beneficial to aquariums. Populations can be managed by feeing less.

I suppose it depends upon personal preference. Some love these guys, and some hate them.
 
I would suggest looking at what Byron identified with GH along with the nitrates we talked about earlier first. If that doesn’t help then you can move on with info below. I can feel your desperation. I’m sorry but I still can’t see the gills clearly. Are they red at all? His belly looks a little swollen which would make me suspect a bacterial infection. Since you’ve tried all in one medication such as General Cure, I would suggest trying Furan-2 which is a stronger med and treats bacterial infections. I usually dose it along with Kanaplex when all else fails as they are a good antibiotic combination. You can get both at a lot of fish stores, Pet Smart sells them or order it on Amazon. I usually don’t suggest these meds but again, I sense your frustration and you’ve tried other things. Please keep us posted. Good luck!
 
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@Byron has a very good point. These are beneficial to aquariums. Populations can be managed by feeing less.

I suppose it depends upon personal preference. Some love these guys, and some hate them.
@Byron thanks for the info on snails. I was just debating on whether one of my tanks is getting too many snails. It looks like a snail grave yard except for the fact they are alive. Lol
 
Thanks
I’m sorry but I still can’t see the gills clearly. Are they red at all? His belly looks s little swollen which would make me suspect a bacterial infection. Since you’ve tried all in one medication such as General Cure, I would suggest trying Furan-2 which is a stronger med and treats bacterial infections. I usually do se it along with Kanaplex when all else fails as they are a good antibiotic combination. You can get both at a lot of fish stores, Pet Smart sells them or order it on Amazon. Please keep us posted. Good luck!

They are a little bit red, as are my female swordtail's.
Yes, his stomach is swollen and my female swordtail's stomach is very thin. Not sure what is up with these fish!:)
I will look into those meds. Thanks for your help!
 
Before you start adding medications to the tank water, which will be stressful in itself, I strongly suggest you deal with the GH and nitrates. This might solve the problem. Or if it still exists, then look at treatments/medications. I know it is a temptation to add this or that when fish don't look "normal" but it is one we must learn to ignore. I have lost fish jumping the gun, I no longer do. Water changes alone usually solve problems because as Colin is frequently correctly mentioning, water quality is generally the underlying cause of problems. The fish are weakened, and then more susceptible.

I have over 50 pond snails and they keep attacking my live plants. That's my only thing against them.:) Are mystery snails as beneficial?

Pond snails will not eat healthy live plants. They browse plant leaf surfaces eating algae and other microscopic food. If the leaf is dying, then they usually eat it. But not live healthy plants.

I've never kept the larger snails, some of which will eat plants. I only have the small very useful helpers!
 
Before you start adding medications to the tank water, which will be stressful in itself, I strongly suggest you deal with the GH and nitrates. This might solve the problem. Or if it still exists, then look at treatments/medications. I know it is a temptation to add this or that when fish don't look "normal" but it is one we must learn to ignore. I have lost fish jumping the gun, I no longer do. Water changes alone usually solve problems because as Colin is frequently correctly mentioning, water quality is generally the underlying cause of problems. The fish are weakened, and then more susceptible.
Thanks for the advice, Byron. I'm going to do a water change ASAP and work on the gh and nitrates. Thank you for the info about the snails.
I'll keep you all posted!:)
 
Update:
I did a 50% water change and retested the water before and after water change.

Before:
ph-7
gh-100-200 ppm
kh-140-200 ppm
nitrite-0 ppm
nitrate-80 ppm
ammonia-0.50 ppm

After:
ph-7
gh-50-100 ppm
kh-The chart said 6-11 solution drops is 100-200 ppm and 8-12 drops is 140-200 ppm. I got 9 drops and I wasn't sure which one was right.
nitrite-0 ppm
nitrate-40 ppm
ammonia-0.25 ppm
Should I be doing daily water changes until the nitrates go down?

It seems like my male swordtail has dropsy; is this treatable? I read about using salt to drawn out the excess water but most sites said that the fish is more likely to die. His stomach is fairly swollen and some scales appear to be sticking out. He has the other symptoms of dropsy too; staying at the surface of the water, not eating, and lethargic.

Also, how do I get the gh up? I have added baking soda for the ph but I don't know if that affects the gh at all.
 
The quickest way to reduce nitrates or any other nutrients in the tank, is to do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. If you don't feel comfortable doing a 75% water change, then do a 50% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day.
*NB* Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

You do water changes for 2 main reasons.
1) to reduce nutrients like ammonia, nitrite & nitrate.
2) to dilute disease organisms in the water.

Fish live in a soup of microscopic organisms including bacteria, fungus, viruses, protozoans, worms, flukes and various other things that make your skin crawl. Doing a big water change and gravel cleaning the substrate on a regular basis will dilute these organisms and reduce their numbers in the water, thus making it a safer and healthier environment for the fish.

If you do a 25% water change each week you leave behind 75% of the bad stuff in the water.
If you do a 50% water change each week you leave behind 50% of the bad stuff in the water.
If you do a 75% water change each week you leave behind 25% of the bad stuff in the water.

Fish live in their own waste. Their tank and filter is full of fish poop. The water they breath is filtered through fish poop. Cleaning filters, gravel and doing big regular water changes, removes a lot of this poop and makes the environment cleaner and healthier for the fish.

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If you haven't cleaned the filter in the last 2 weeks, then clean it. wash filter materials in a bucket of tank water. When they are clean, put them in the tank and wash the filter case under tap water. Reassemble the filter and get it going.

Filters should be cleaned at least once a month and every 2 weeks is better, especially if you have a high bio-load in the tank (from the big pleco).

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It's possible the fish has kidney or liver problems due to the high nitrates. They could have worms or a tumour, cyst or TB.

I would clean the tank up and get the nitrates down. Then treat the fish for intestinal worms so you can rule that out. Then monitor the fish and see how they go.

If the fish has severe liver or kidney damage it will probably die but if you keep the conditions good, the remaining fish should be ok. If you get the nitrates down and GH up, and the other fish develop the same problem, then it is something in them.

Internal bacterial infections usually kill fish within a few days of them bloating up.
Tumours and cysts can grow in fish for months before killing them.

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You can use Praziquantel to treat tapeworm and gill flukes. And Levamisole to treat thread/ round worms. If these are not available, look for Flubendazole.

Remove carbon from filters before treatment and increase aeration/ surface turbulence to maximise oxygen levels in the water.

You treat the fish once a week for 3-4 weeks. The first treatment will kill any worms in the fish. The second and third treatments kill any baby worms that hatch from eggs inside the fish's digestive tract.

You do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean 24-48 hours after treatment. Clean the filter 24 hours after treatment too.

Treat every fish tank in the house at the same time.

Do not use the 2 medications together. If you want to treat both medications in a short space of time, use Praziquantel on day one. Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate on day 2 & 3. Treat the tank with Levamisole on day 4 and do a 75% water change and gravel clean on day 5, 6 & 7 and then start with Praziquantel again on day 8.

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You can use a Rift Lake water conditioner to increase the GH of the water. Livebearers like swordtails, platies & guppies need a GH around 200ppm. Mollies need a GH around 250ppm.

Suckermouth catfish naturally occur in soft water with a pH below 7.0 and a GH below 100ppm.

You need to find out exactly how hard your water is and buffer it to around 180-200ppm. Don't go above 200ppm because the pleco won't be happy. Anything less than 150ppm and the livebearers will have issues.
 
Thanks for the reply. The swordtail died yesterday after being bloated for 2 days. I'm going to assume it was a bacterial infection. All of the other fish seem fine right now as far as disease goes.

I went to the pet store to return the assassin snails and they tested my water. They said that my kh is way too high and that I can't add anymore fish until I bring it down. She said to do 25% water changes every day until it's lower. Is 100-200 ppm too high since I have livebearers?

Is TB common? I had thought that a couple of my platys had it but I read that it's very unlikely. Also, is it transmittable to humans?

As far as internal bacterial infections go, the infection was already in the water and poor water quality brought it out?
 
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100-200ppm of KH is fine for livebearers. The high KH simply means your pH won't drop suddenly.

Aquarium water is full of different types of bacteria and fish ingest them all the time. If a fish gets run down from stress or poor water quality, they are more likely to develop dropsy or other internal and external infections.

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Is TB common? I had thought that a couple of my platys had it but I read that it's very unlikely. Also, is it transmittable to humans?
Any fish can be infected with Mycobacterium (Tuberculosis or TB). Australian and New Guinea Rainbowfish are regularly infected and livebearers and dwarf gouramis from Asia are too.

In 2006 I had TB in my tanks and did some research on the subject. Every pet shop and fish importer that I contacted, admitted they had, or suspected they had fish TB in their tanks on at least one occasion. I contacted most of the shops and importers in Australia. Most of the fish coming into Australia come from Asian fish farms and these farms also supply freshwater tropical fishes to most of the world. So if it's in Australia, it's highly likely it is in every country around the world.

Fish TB is also found in a lot of waterways and in Western Australia, the state government had trout farms where they bred and grew trout to be released into natural waterways for recreational fishermen. The main trout farm was in Pemberton in the south-west of WA and it had TB in its system. Basically the state government was releasing an introduced species of fish (trout) that were contaminated with TB into rivers so fishermen could catch them. Subsequently most of the fresh water creeks and rivers in the southern half of the state now have fish TB in them. The trout also eat the native fishes. :(

Australian native fishes never evolved with fish TB and were never exposed to it until 30 or 40 years ago and they have no resistance to it. This is why it's so commonly seen in rainbowfish. Other fishes from Asia have been exposed to it for thousands of years and appear to have some resistance to it.

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Fish can be infected with TB for months or even years before they show any signs. The most common symptoms include: the fish swelling up overnight, breathes heavily (usually at the surface or near a filter outlet), stops eating, does a stringy white poop, dies within 24 hours of showing these symptoms.

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Fish Mycobacteria (TB) is a very slow growing bacteria. Most common bacteria can double every few hours. Mycobacteria takes days or weeks to double.

In cold water, TB grows slower and goldfish can carry the bacteria for years before it affects them. In warm water, the bacteria grows quicker, but it's still a slow growing disease.

If fish are big, it takes longer for the bacteria to build up in numbers and kill the fish. A small fish has smaller organs and less bacteria are needed to damage it.

The bacteria kill the fish by destroying internal organs and causing organ failure. Basically a fish becomes infected by eating TB contaminated food or ingesting the bacteria with contaminated water. The bacteria settle into an organ somewhere in the fish's body and start growing. They grow slowly and build up over time. Eventually the bacteria damage the organ they are growing in and the fish swells up and dies.

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You can't treat fish TB because Mycobacterium cells are covered in a waxy coating, which prevents chemicals harming the bacterium and also protects it from the elements. The bacterium can remain dormant in shady areas or mud for many years. A fish health scientist I contacted about this in 2006, told me he found live but dormant fish TB in a dry river bed down south. The river had not had any water for 7 years, yet they still found live bacteria there. Hot and dry conditions kill the bacteria quicker. It dies in a couple of seconds at 60 degrees Celcius.

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People can catch fish TB, however people with a healthy immune system are less likely to develop a fish TB infection. People catch fish TB when open wounds in their skin are infected with TB contaminated water. If you wash your hands and arms with warm soapy water after working in a tank, you are less likely to contract the disease. If you have cuts, scratches, sores or any open wounds on your skin, avoid getting fish tank water on them. Wear a pr of rubber gloves or just stay out of the tank until the wounds have healed.

People with a weakened immune system (heart disease, lung problems, diabetes, cancer, HIV, old people, babies, etc), are more likely to develop localised TB infections.

If you develop any sores on your hands or arms that don't heal up normally or quickly (within 2 weeks), see your doctor and inform them that you keep aquarium fish. The doctor will probably try to put you on anti-biotics, however this is not good. Ask the doctor to take a swab of the sore and send it off for testing to see what is growing in the wound. The lab should culture the swab and test various treatments on it to find out which medication will work best. The results will be sent to the doctor, along with a list of medications that treat the disease. The doctor will then find a medication that is safe and suitable for you.

Do not take anti-biotics for a small sore that hasn't healed until it has been swabbed and identified in a lab. Then take the anti-biotic that works best on that specific bacteria.

People have gone to the doctor with small sores and been put on anti-biotics before a swab was taken. The anti-biotics don't work and the bacterium simply becomes resistant to that sort of anti-biotic. Because the anti-biotics don't work, the doctor prescribes another type of anti-biotic and this continues for months with no improvement. Eventually the doctor will take a swab and send it off for culture, but that can be 6 months later and by then you have big sores on your skin that are gross and can potentially contaminate other people with open wounds.

So just make sure you tell the doctor you keep fish and want any sores swabbed and sent off for culturing before you take anti-biotics.

Before you go to the doctors, or while you're waiting for the results, you can try using raw honey. You wash the wound with warm soapy water, dry it with a tissue, then rub raw honey into the wound. Put a bandaid over the wound to stop the honey going everywhere. Remove the bandaid and wash the wound and re-apply honey 2 times a day. Raw honey has chemicals in it that kill viruses, fungus, and bacteria and might help with fish TB. You normally see results after 3-4 days of applying honey and you continue using it until the wounds have healed over.
 
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Thank you for all of the info. I now know that I have to pay more attention to my water quality as that is the most likely reason for sick fish. Thanks again!:)
 
Is it me, or has nobody mentioned his increasing ammonia?.5 before water change? Way too high. Combined with high nitrates and there is a toxic cocktail the fish are swimming in.
 

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