Dyed Fish?

[wendywc]

Very good points, Neale. But like you said that is because on inbreeding and not because of the glofish danios genetically-modified trait. The company selling the glofish shouldn't be so scared of them losing their genetically-modified color and breed them with other (regular) zebra danios. However, because they breed the glofish with eachother so much, they get the inbred problems that you mention -- no arguments with me on that.

 

[nmonks]

This is an interesting comment. Since this is a transgenic fish, the extra gene (for glowing) doesn't exist in the genomes of regular danios. I have no idea what happens if you cross glofish with regular danios. Will the gene be passed on to the offspring? Or can the two kinds of fish no longer breed?

Ordinarily, if this was something like, say, having a veil-tail, then this would be one version (an allele) of a gene, the other of which is normal length fins. So when you cross breed veil-tail and regular fish, the offspring will have a mixture of the alleles, and depending on which is recessive and which dominant, the resulting offspring will show a particular ratio of veil-tail to regular fins.

Since these are transgenic fish, the glow gene is unique. There's no counterpart to it in regular danios. The genome of the glofish will be "too long" to the tune of one gene when compared with regular danios. So what happens when they breed? Any geneticists out there care to fill me in?

Cheers,

Neale

The company selling the glofish shouldn't be so scared of them losing their genetically-modified color and breed them with other (regular) zebra danios.

 

[wendywc]

^^^ Hmmm, wow. I've never bred any kind of fish before... not sure now if it's possible for the glofish.

 

[Themuleous]

Interesting point, cant say Im a geneticists but you'd think it would be impossile for the glofish genes to combine with regular genes for the reason you've suggested.

 

[scrappy]

My opinion would be that breeding would be possible, however results would be that the offspring are extremely likely to have mass deformaties and lifespan severly reduced...

Genetic modification of anything living in my opinion is playing god and shouldnt be allowed.

We should take note of the way humans harness these godlike powers.
What was the first thing we did when we managed to harness the power of the atom !!!

 

[seth]

I think dying fish is mean and inhumaine but i have no problem with genetically altered fish like the "glofish" the fish live as long as the zebra fish they come from just way back in their bloodline a few fish were experimented with. im not sure i like the idea of tatooing fish though. here is a link to a website that tells a little bit about 'glofish' http/aquaticcritter.com/Critter_News/GloFish.htm
I have said it once ill say it again i have no personnal problem with genetically altered fish. because it causes the fish no pains because they cant feel, and it causes no damage to the fish. so yes to genetically altering fish maybe to tattooing fish and no to dying fish.

 

[The-Wolf]

I certainly will not buy dyed fish, tattooed fish or genetically modified fish - even if that means I have to do without my glowlight tetras (are they modified too?)

To the very best of my knowledge, glowlight tetras are 100% natural

to confirm; Yes the glowlight tetra Hemigrammus erythrozonus is 100% natural,
as are the glowlight danio danio choprae and the glowlight rasbora Trigonostigma hengeli

I myself can understand the reason why Glowfish(tm) were created in the lab,
I can not accept that the comercial aspects of this fish warrents its continual production.
I'm glad that they are illegal here and hope they never will be.

As for dying,tattoing etc of fish
give me five mins in a room alone with these people (one on one)
and ..........

 

[nmonks]

Seth --

Actually, the science on whether or not fish feel pain is still unclear. The basic argument for fish not feeling pain is that they have simpler brains that do not process things like 'pain' or 'fear'.

Anglers carp at 'fish pain' theory [CNN]
Do fish feel pain?[Prof. James D. Rose]

However, fish to take actions to avoid using damaged tissue, implying that, in the same way we limp or protect bits of skin that are burned, that they are able to feel the damage.

Fish do feel pain, scientists say [BBC]
Fish 'capable of experiencing pain' [New Scientist]
Can animals feel pain [The Wellcome Trust]

Researcher Lynne Sneddon puts it thus: As we cannot get into the minds of animals, or meaningfully measure emotional pain in animals, perhaps we should accept that animal pain is different from human pain, and is something we will never be able to describe fully. Nevertheless, even if animal pain may be distinct from human pain, is that a reason to consider it less important either biologically or ethically?

Since this is an ethical problem, I think it comes down to why were keeping pet fish and how that reflects on us. If you're keeping fish because you like them and want to provide them with good homes where they can live and breed, then surely the right thing to do is avoid anything that might cause pain or suffering? Fisherman and grizzly bears might be able to skip the ethics because their livelihoods depend on fishing, but we don't depend on having nice aquaria, so we should do the right thing by the fish.

It's also worth noting that even the scientists who say fish don't feel pain directly can get stressed, so both sides of the argument make it clear that good animal welfare is important.

Personally, I'm against anything that diminishes the quality if life for the fish. I'm not crazy about things like veil-tail danios and albino angels, I'm definitely against tatooing and dying fish (both of which cause damage to the fish and increase the likelihood of infections), and I abhor the use of live feeder fishes to feed predatory catfish and so on. I simply don't believe anyone should keep a pet fish that relies solely on live vertebrate prey. This is something scientific researchers would have to make a rigorous, ethics-based case if they wanted to do this, so there's no excuse at all when it comes to hobbyists.

Cheers,

Neale

I have said it once ill say it again i have no personnal problem with genetically altered fish. because it causes the fish no pains because they cant feel, and it causes no damage to the fish. so yes to genetically altering fish maybe to tattooing fish and no to dying fish.