Dr Tim's nitrifying bacteria question

[kthien]

Hi all,

Is it possible to use Dr Tim's marine bacteria in a freshwater setup? Due to the pandemic, my LFS only stocks large bottles of the reef/marine bacteria. It is quite expensive so I did not want to take a chance without asking first. Has anyone had experience in using this?

Help much appreciated, thank you.

 

[Byron]

Someone who may have used the marine bacteria in freshwater can provide their insight, but from my reading of Dr. Hovanec's studies I woould doubt they are interchangeable. The team of biochemists identified that there are different strains (species) of ammonia oxidizing bacteria (AOB) in marine systems and freshwater systems. From the paper:

These findings implying a physiological difference between the species of AOB responsible for ammonia oxidation in the two systems, which differ only in terms of salinity. The effect of salinity on the growth and physiology of AOB has been demonstrated, and it has been shown that some AOB require salt for growth while salt is inhibitory for others (9).​

Here is the link to this study:

https://aem.asm.org/content/aem/67/12/5791.full.pdf

 

[kthien]

Thanks Byron, that's a wonderful study.

I contacted the company directly and was told that the FW bacteria were incapable of surviving in salt whilst marine bacteria were more resilient and able to adapt in FW; two different types of bacteria was stated. I queried further about whether there were any effects to cycling time but was unanswered. I'm going to take a punt and try it out, just for curiosity's sake. It can't be worse than Seachem Stability though as I've personally found no change to my cycling time.

 

[Byron]

Most of the so-called bacterial supplements will speed up the establishment of the AOB and NOB bacteria. The only one that does actually instantly cycle is Dr. Tim's One and Only if used as directed.

Dr. Hovanec also did a test of various products claiming to initiate the cycle, in freshwater this was, and he found that even though none of them contain the actual bacteria species identified as those responsible, they did quicken the process by a few days out of the several weeks.

https://aem.asm.org/content/aem/62/8/2888.full.pdf

The NOB (nitrite oxidizing bacteria) in freshwater could not be specifically identified. Dr. Hovanec reasoned that it was likely close or the same as that in marine water, namely a species of Nitrospira (but definitely not the Nitrobacter that used to be thought responsible). This was another study, here is the link:

https://aem.asm.org/content/aem/64/1/258.full.pdf

 

[kthien]

I apologise for digging up this old thread if it is against the rules.

I've started to venture into shrimp keeping and noticed a lot of "bacterial powders" being sold and sworn by Asian breeders, which I've noticed is heavily built upon anecdotal experiences. They claim that there are true nitrifying bacteria in these dry powdered forms, which can help to cycle tanks within 10-14 days. Do you have any insights into whether AOB may be freeze-dried/suspended, to be reactivated later @Byron ?

I'm thinking that it is possibly not true, rather that the powders do perhaps contain some other types of bacteria similar to the ones in Seachem Pristine (breakdown sludge/detritus whilst also reducing ammonia, nitrites etc.) with AOB slowly establishing in the background naturally, as opposed to being introduced by the powder itself.

 

[Byron]

I apologise for digging up this old thread if it is against the rules.

I've started to venture into shrimp keeping and noticed a lot of "bacterial powders" being sold and sworn by Asian breeders, which I've noticed is heavily built upon anecdotal experiences. They claim that there are true nitrifying bacteria in these dry powdered forms, which can help to cycle tanks within 10-14 days. Do you have any insights into whether AOB may be freeze-dried/suspended, to be reactivated later @Byron ?

I'm thinking that it is possibly not true, rather that the powders do perhaps contain some other types of bacteria similar to the ones in Seachem Pristine (breakdown sludge/detritus whilst also reducing ammonia, nitrites etc.) with AOB slowly establishing in the background naturally, as opposed to being introduced by the powder itself.

I would seriously question their claim. Nitrifying bacteria upon drying out die, and they do not return to life if placed in water. I do not see how any of the nitrifying bacteria could be alive except in a liquid medium, and these have a shelf life and temperature issues.