Discus Not Eating

DL, I will have to look into the Seachem products. I have not ever heard of them. I will let you know what I find. In the story about the discus jumping I meant to communicate that the new one jumped to the old one. I know I need more discus. Maybe one day soon..... Before I invest more money in products, I may just take the fish back and let the petstore deal with it. This problem should be theirs anyway. I will keep you posted, and thank-you.

Update: I just looked on Seachem's website. The Metro is the same stuff that is in the General cure, but GC has the para... And unless the fish starts eating, the Focus is not going to help me. I will see if I can find someone that has these. The Focus sounds like a good idea because their could be infection from the parasites.

He had another poo, and once again, not while I was looking. They are solid white, not stringy. They look like a normal poo, but white. When I sucked them out of the tank, I looked more closely and they look like mucous.

Any thoughts?
 
Personally i would always advise customers (and ANYONE else for that matter!) to use Kusuris Discus Wormer, i believe it was created by order from Plymouth Discus? The stuff is a miracle! Never seen a treatment with such immediate effects!

I now treat all my tanks at home (discus, angels, severums) every couple of months and the systems of discus at the shop and any individual treatments whether a dip or over a few hours.

Usually within 15 minutes of sitting in the treatment, the discus start producing worms and usually start eating right away if not scavanging whilst treatment is in, i havent had it fail yet! I would swear by it.
 
I'm surprised that after five days of getting help from two very good Discus keepers, you are still treating the symptoms of your trouble, and not the cause. Your care is not up to scratch. This paragraph is the only time in this post where I'll be intentionally blunt. Now you are working on the symptoms, I'll try set you right on the cause. After my dig you'll need a moral boost, so I'll list what you are doing right before I cover what's wrong and how to fix it. Discus are easy enough to keep alive if you stick to a select few basic "rules" of keeping them. The fact you have had issues keeping Discus alive over any reasonable length of time should scream to you that something about your tank or care is not correct, and you need to work out what the issue is and correct it before you waste more cash and life on a tank that isn't working for what you are trying to keep. :nod:

Tank size. 55g is just about big enough if it's a 55g tall (not long/wide)

You are listening to advice. This is always a good start :good:

Now, a list of things I see as a problem (Grab a cup of Coffee, sit down, make sure you have 15mins spare and make yourself comfortable. Scroll down the see the list length and improvements I'd suggest to your care :crazy: )

Water. Well, where to start here... Cleanliness. Monthly water changes changes would struggle to keep up with the load on a lightly stocked tank, let alone a minimum size Discus tnak that is fed and stocked according to minimum guidelines. With adult fish you'll get away with 30-50% weekly as a minimum in a bare bottomed tank. With Juviniles or a substrate, you should be aiming to do 30-50% twice a week. Anything less, and your water will be loaded with Dissolved organics and (eventually) other pollutants/hormones, If you are raising juviniles in a tank with a substrate, I'd actually be aiming for daily water changes. If you cannot provide this amount of water changes, you have chosen the incorrect fish to keep. As with anything, water conditions are key to keeping these guys alive :nod: If that level of water changing isn't possible for you, look at smaller and less messy fish that aren't as fussed about clean water :good:

Next up, actual water parameters. pH and temperature are both too low. You are keeping (most likely as you have bought from a shop) Asian bred stock. They will not have seen a pH below 7.0 before in their lives if you ignore sipping when a CO2 build-up unavoidably lowers the bag pH water in the 30 something hours they are in transit for. The exception would be if you have a clueless LFS, which wouldn't surprise me. No Discus shop that knows what they are doing would sell Discus until all staff have satisfied themselves that they are healthy and all ave been seen eating. The fact that they sold one that wasn't eating would suggest to me a clueless shop. As covered above, your temperature needs to be 28 as a minimum for a Discus's immune system to be effective, with 30 being preferable (temperatures in centigrade).

Diet. You are feeding a very slim diet of high protien, fat and anti-vitamin foods. There isn't enough vitamins or variety there. Discus eat mainly vegetable matter in the wild, and aren't used to lots of protein and more specifically fat. You need to get more veg in there, ideally about 1/4, add a good staple pellet food (what do you have already?) and then increase your fresh or frozen food variety. Lots of Dicus keepers swear by Beefeart, but I will never feed it to a Discus under my care. My information surgests that it will severly shorten the live of Discus fish if fed as a staple diet. Breeders offering Beefheart to their Discus usually report 5-10 years live expectancy. Discus breeders not offering it at all surgest 25-30 years expected life span... As a treat of "grow out" food it may be OK, but it never wants to be offered neet, and NEVER as shop bought frozen stuff, the meat quality is poor. Make your own, and mix in other foods. The heart wants to be a maximum of 20% of the BH mix when you are done :nod: On top of potentially shortening the life of Discus, BH is packed with anti-vitamins that cancel vitamins from other foods, lacks vitamins itself and is loaded with un-healthy fats and protiens that are supposed to be difficult to digest (I'll reference one of my books and pages for that info if you want/need it. While it is partially author opinion, the author does link to good and valid scientific research that appears to back-up his claims on BH nutritional values)

Filtration. If you were feeding the amount required (three feeds a day for adults, 4 for juviniles), one lonely hob rated at or slightly above your tank size would not cope with the waste loading on your tank. You want to at least double up the HOB with another that claims to be able to run the tank alone, or ideally, install a canister filter.

Group number have been covered already

Stocking. Tiger barbs are nippy and fast moving, and can easily stress Discus, I'd suggest their removal. BN's are fine, but what are the other Catfish? (sorry if you've mentioned this, I got fed up of all the things that hadn't been picked-up on by half way through the last page, and there was no way all the no-no type things could have been pointed out and explained in sufficient detain in the remainder of the posts I didn't read...)

Salt. Discus are supposed to be salt in-tollerant. While short-term IME this is not the case, using salt with ANY fish that isn't Brackish or Marine will do damage over the long-term. It leads to premature organ failure as a result of increased osmotic and toxic pressure on the fish. Water is constantly sucked out of the fish and the salt makes is harder for the fish to remove toxins from their bodies. Short-term this won't be too bad, in fact that's part of what makes salt good when treating White-spot with it, but long-term the increased strain on the gills and more importantly the Kidneys and Liver, will lead to organ failure and death.

*goes to read last few posts*

RE Kisuri Discus Wormer. It's as effective as asking the parasites to leave IME. IE it does not work. It doesn't even have the correct type of Flubendazole in it to work (without killing the fish, it will kill the parasites, but that type of Flubendazole requires a dose strong enough to kill the fish you are treating it kill parasites). It may slow the parasites reproduction rates suffice for an immune responce to overcome the ailment, but it is not effective for heavy infestations, only mild infections that can be shaken off by the fish anyway with good husbandry. You are in the US so sould have a large number of Flubendazole, Metro and Prazi meds available. Follow DiscusLova's advice on what to get, I can only recommend stuff that works to the UK folk, as we have to "improvise" to get a working Discus wormer with Reptile/Dog/Cat meds...

Gosh, I need to get a life, I've spent nearly an hour on that :lol:

All the best
Rabbut
 
Rabbut, I have absolutely no problem with anything that you said. In fact I appreciate the straight forward advice you have given and I appreciate the time you took to write your post. Obviously the "experts" I have listened to in the past were not knowledgeable. When I had real difficulty keeping discus before, I got real frustrated. And I looked for answers, but obviously got the wrong ones.

Water - I have read conflicting info on the salt. And really did not know who or what to believe. The fish I just bought had a ph of 5.8 when I got them. My tank was at 6.0. I have read in numerous places that they prefer acidic water. I will allow the PH of the tank to naturally drift up, unless you think more drastic action is needed.

Water changes - I used to change more often and have gone back to changing.

Food - I feed a Hikari Discus BioGold pellets everyday. I did not know about the vegies. I read this week about giving them a pea occasionally. I have beefheart but have fed very little because it does not seem to be a natural food for a fish. You all have confirmed my suspicions. I feed bloodworms as a treat. I have offered the sick fish any number of things to encourage him to eat.

Water temp - I was honest about where my tank was at that time, but it typically was at 80 F. Everything I read in the past said that was okay, and the rest of the inhabitants would be okay. After reading everything that has been posted, I realize that is not acceptable. I have been raising the temp on the tank and it is now 85 F like the hospital tank.

Stocking - Once again, bad advice was given to me. And after reading so much here in the last week, I know that the barbs are a bad idea. I am trying to figure out what I will do with them (set up another tank, which I have plenty of or rehome). The catfish are a cory cat, and two others that I never actually knew the name for.

After reading the responses that have been given to me on this thread, I have also been spending time reading some of the other posts on discus care, I realize I am now talking to people who know what they are doing. So maybe I am finally getting good advice. It will take time to build up my discus population and to get some of the equipment upgraded, but I have enough spare equipment to make due until I can upgrade.

Now, back to the sick fish. I think from what I am reading I need to continue to treat him until he eats. Is that the consensus? I am also considering pulling the other new fish and putting them back together. These two were very close when I got them. What do you all think?

I cannot tell each of you how much I appreciate your input and advice. I finally feel like I am getting the information I need so I can successfully keep these beautiful fish.
 
Now, back to the sick fish. I think from what I am reading I need to continue to treat him until he eats. Is that the consensus? I am also considering pulling the other new fish and putting them back together. These two were very close when I got them. What do you all think?

As I said, I would recommend switching medications. The reason being, is because I am not sure how often prazi can be safely dosed. Metro is a good wormer and can be safely dosed at a higher concentration and more often and at a higher concentration dosed twice a day I have heard stories of pulling fish back around. The Focus is for when the fish starts eating, and for your fish that is eating ;)

I am glad Rabbut gave you a few more tips. A good rounded diet, clean water with no pH adjustment, high temperature and a nice group of Discus will make your life a lot easier!
 
Now, back to the sick fish. I think from what I am reading I need to continue to treat him until he eats. Is that the consensus? I am also considering pulling the other new fish and putting them back together. These two were very close when I got them. What do you all think?

As I said, I would recommend switching medications. The reason being, is because I am not sure how often prazi can be safely dosed. Metro is a good wormer and can be safely dosed at a higher concentration and more often and at a higher concentration dosed twice a day I have heard stories of pulling fish back around. The Focus is for when the fish starts eating, and for your fish that is eating ;)

I am glad Rabbut gave you a few more tips. A good rounded diet, clean water with no pH adjustment, high temperature and a nice group of Discus will make your life a lot easier!


Okay, I will have to see if I can find some Metro around here. I know I can get it online, but it will be a week before it gets here. I am glad Rabbut gave me the tips too. Thank-you.
 
Treatment time for internal parasites depends on your med and the parasite you are treating. The fact the ill fish is still new means it may not be eating for that reason also, the lack of appetite isn't necessarily the disease alone... With metro applied as a bath, you should treat once a week (unless the manufacturer recommends more often) over the course of a month to clear a bad infestation of parasites. If you apply it as medicated food, you'll have to keep treating for a week after you have first seen the fish eat.

All the best
Rabbut
 
I would be taking discuslovers advice to heart and actually follow, but also can take up to 3 weeks coming from a store to eat for U! Feel lucky u get a fish put food in the tank and it eats! As far as what of the other members stated about 55gal tank I use a 55 long and no problems at all, but I also run extreme filtration and water movement I move the water in my tank 10x over and filtrate it something like 8x I think, with 1 water change every week. Discuslover will help u with medication for sure helped me out whne meds arnt avialable here need to use dog,cat worming stuff for my fish ><, although I Identified what it was made it easier to treat (nematodes) found out 2 months after was to late damage already was done! Part of life move on learn something, but make sure u learn something for how much it cost u, for me i cant get a fish like that now and pisses me off even more knowing that
 
Well I am going to vent now. It is so disappointing to have people who are in the fish business who are supposed to know what they are doing that do not know the things I have learned here. I have lost so many discus because I was given wrong information. Buying the sick fish is my fault, I knew better. But the LFS should know their fish better and should never have sold him to me. The tank, the salt, the PH, the stocking, the barbs; it all came from people who I should have been able to trust. My LFS is locally owned. The people are family (not mine), not teenagers who could care less. The are supposed to be experienced! The senseless loss of fishes and the frustration is huge. I am so P O'd!

Okay, that said, I think I am losing the sick fish. He is not swimming well. I will watch him, but I don't think this is good. I called the petstore. They are going to get me another one. I am so sad. The healthy one was real close to the sick one. In the meantime I will be working on setting my tank up the way it should be. And I will see if I can afford another one at the same time. That would put me up to four. I do appreciate the information each of you have shared and a special thank-you to DiscusLova. You spent alot of time trying to help and I appreciate it. I have learned alot this week!
 
Well I am going to vent now. It is so disappointing to have people who are in the fish business who are supposed to know what they are doing that do not know the things I have learned here. I have lost so many discus because I was given wrong information. Buying the sick fish is my fault, I knew better. But the LFS should know their fish better and should never have sold him to me. The tank, the salt, the PH, the stocking, the barbs; it all came from people who I should have been able to trust. My LFS is locally owned. The people are family (not mine), not teenagers who could care less. The are supposed to be experienced! The senseless loss of fishes and the frustration is huge. I am so P O'd!

Okay, that said, I think I am losing the sick fish. He is not swimming well. I will watch him, but I don't think this is good. I called the petstore. They are going to get me another one. I am so sad. The healthy one was real close to the sick one. In the meantime I will be working on setting my tank up the way it should be. And I will see if I can afford another one at the same time. That would put me up to four. I do appreciate the information each of you have shared and a special thank-you to DiscusLova. You spent alot of time trying to help and I appreciate it. I have learned alot this week!

I am sure they had (hopefully) good intentions at heart. Discus are a specialized fish in general, you need to research a lot on them and a lot of things that should be done for them don't apply to other fish. Now you are on the right track to a healthy Discus tank. Good luck with the sick fish, maybe he can still pull through but if he is not swimming things will probably only get worse :(

Rabbut just so you know, it is passing white feces, and wasn't eating at the store. And with all the stress of being at the LFS and moving to their new tank I would recommend worming them anyways as most people do with new comers.
 
When my fish were young I did 1 and sometimes 2 50% - 70% water changes a day in a barebottom tank. This was in addition to running 3 filters that probably pumped close to 1000gph. About 5 months ago I added a thin substrate of sand. for the last 2 - 3 months I've dropped feedings down to 3 or less per day from previously 6-7 and do water changes twice weekly. My tank is a 50 gallon high. I keep the temp between 82-86F. It drops to 82 at night when I have the central air on. My discus and rams are all over a year old and still alive and well and I would be surpised if they dont continue on living for years to come.
 
Well I am going to vent now. It is so disappointing to have people who are in the fish business who are supposed to know what they are doing that do not know the things I have learned here. I have lost so many discus because I was given wrong information. Buying the sick fish is my fault, I knew better. But the LFS should know their fish better and should never have sold him to me. The tank, the salt, the PH, the stocking, the barbs; it all came from people who I should have been able to trust. My LFS is locally owned. The people are family (not mine), not teenagers who could care less. The are supposed to be experienced! The senseless loss of fishes and the frustration is huge. I am so P O'd!

Okay, that said, I think I am losing the sick fish. He is not swimming well. I will watch him, but I don't think this is good. I called the petstore. They are going to get me another one. I am so sad. The healthy one was real close to the sick one. In the meantime I will be working on setting my tank up the way it should be. And I will see if I can afford another one at the same time. That would put me up to four. I do appreciate the information each of you have shared and a special thank-you to DiscusLova. You spent alot of time trying to help and I appreciate it. I have learned alot this week!

I am sure they had (hopefully) good intentions at heart. Discus are a specialized fish in general, you need to research a lot on them and a lot of things that should be done for them don't apply to other fish. Now you are on the right track to a healthy Discus tank. Good luck with the sick fish, maybe he can still pull through but if he is not swimming things will probably only get worse :(

It's sad but a fact of life in the fish keeping hobby. Most of us have a love-hate relationship with our LFS. Without them we wouldn't have anywhere to go at weekends and wouldn't be able to keep fish as we wouldn't be able to get the stock we want to keep, but most LFS's give out duff info :sad: Really, we all need to research for ourselves, the needs of the fish we are getting, and listen to the LFS only if they are usually on the correct track with advise. This lead onto answering the PM you sent me. The main book I refer to is Dieter Untergasser's guide to Discus Health. The book is fairly old, but most of the information is still correct and up-to-date IMO. On-line there is a wealth of information on Discus however :nod:

Rabbut just so you know, it is passing white feces, and wasn't eating at the store. And with all the stress of being at the LFS and moving to their new tank I would recommend worming them anyways as most people do with new comers.

That I'd agree with. The only time I would routinely worm Discus is in QT directly after purchase :nod: After that, good husbandry should be all that's needed to keep them healthy :good:

All the best
Rabbut
 
My sick discus is still hanging on today. His swimming is better than yesterday. He still has not eaten. Since I cannot get the metro by itself, I decided to dose the General Cure again. From what I read online about the prazi by itself I think it should be fine. Even though I thought he was on the downhill slide yesterday, I have still offered food and I have been doing water changes daily.

Thanks for the info I requested Rabbut.
 
I have an urgent question! The LFS has two discus in that are eating well. They are taking back the one that has not been eating. He still looks good, he just won't eat. Anyway, I know the tank at the LFS has a PH of around 6 and I know mine is up, probably around 6.5. What suggestions do you have to acclimate the new fish to my water? I can test my tank before I go over there, but if mine is as high as 7.0 will the PH change be too much?
 
I have an urgent question! The LFS has two discus in that are eating well. They are taking back the one that has not been eating. He still looks good, he just won't eat. Anyway, I know the tank at the LFS has a PH of around 6 and I know mine is up, probably around 6.5. What suggestions do you have to acclimate the new fish to my water? I can test my tank before I go over there, but if mine is as high as 7.0 will the PH change be too much?

Yes. You should acclimate them slowly using a drip system, or floating them and slowly replace all their water over a long period of time. When I acclimated my Discus I used a 1/4th cup to scoop out old water and replace it with new water from my tank. I slowly poured the water in once every 30 mins.
 

Most reactions

Back
Top