Didn't Do A Fishless Cycle.

[Joller]

Hi, very new to this and wasn't actually aware that a fishless cycle was a good idea.
I started off with 2 red tail sharks (nearly a week ago) to test the tank and when they didn't die I got 2 angelfish
and all was well, but the the sharks both died today, and they appeared fine yesterday.
I really like the angelfish and I'm a bit worried that the angelfish might take a turn for the worse. (They're about 2 inches long not including the tail)
They're fairly active at the moment and eating well, plus now they've got the whole 40 gallon tank to themselves.
I tested the ammonia and pH and they both seem fine (0ppm ammonia & 7.4 pH)

So I'm not sure what killed the red tail sharks, could it be high temperature?
It's summer here and my tank sits at about 28/29 Celsius without the heater going.

 

[windhopper]

Hi, very new to this and wasn't actually aware that a fishless cycle was a good idea.
I started off with 2 red tail sharks (nearly a week ago) to test the tank and when they didn't die I got 2 angelfish
and all was well, but the the sharks both died today, and they appeared fine yesterday.
I really like the angelfish and I'm a bit worried that the angelfish might take a turn for the worse. (They're about 2 inches long not including the tail)
They're fairly active at the moment and eating well, plus now they've got the whole 40 gallon tank to themselves.
I tested the ammonia and pH and they both seem fine (0ppm ammonia & 7.4 pH)

So I'm not sure what killed the red tail sharks, could it be high temperature?
It's summer here and my tank sits at about 28/29 Celsius without the heater going.

I dont know anything much about red tail sharks, but have you tested the nitrite and nitrate? Nitrite is just as bad for fish as ammonia and should never rise above 0ppm. The nitrate shouldnt be too high either. Test those and let us know wat they are.

 

[mwood2]

hmm could be the nitrite? Ammonia is just one of the tank stats that are deadly to fish. Nitrite is produced from the bacteria that eats the ammonia and is also deadly. Nitrate is harmless if its below 20 but usually isnt anything to worry about. Was there any signs of illness beforehand and do the angels show any signs of problems on there bodies now?

Also Red Tail sharks are aggressive towards members of there own species, was there any squabbles or signs of fighting before they died? Just keep testing your tank for both nitrite and ammonia daily for a week, when you see no signs of problems your tank SHOULD be cycled. If any signs of either, do 20-30% water change asap.

Good luck to you.

EDIT: darn, posted to late

 

[jackson 10]

how long have you had your tank for fella ? did your sharks seem stresed as in swimming near to the surface ?

 

[Joller]

The red tails were a bit strange, when i got them they were both very colourful, then the first day i had them they became dull, then the slightly larger one became well coloured again and would chase the other one around a fair bit, but didnt tend to bite. (I just guessed the dull one was the lesser dominate of the two)
But the the dull one died this morning and i found the other dead tonight.
Another strange thing was that yesterday the dull one became bright again and they started dancing next to each other for about 10 minutes but then it went dull again.

Anyway I was ill advised at the store that if there's a nitrate problem then there's also an ammonia problem and so I would only need an ammonia testing kit.
I'll have to go to the store tomorrow and get the nitrate nitrite tests.

 

[rabbut]

RTBS would have a 6ft cubed teritory in the wild. I'm guessing the caurse of death for both is murder, having forght quite literaly to the death. These fish are hardy and the load in the tank small for the size of tank, so ammonia and/or nitrite shouldn't have got high enough to kill them unless you were overfeeding. Generaly these fish go for the gills, so signs of fighting may not always be obvious on the bodies

Nitrite, Nitrate and ammonia are all seporate chemicals. Ammonia will rise and start to drop, just as nitrite rises. When ammonia drops to zero, nitrite will raise to a peak and then start to drop as nitrate rises. When nitrite hits zero, nitrate will rise at a steady rate. This is a simplifyed version of the nitrogen cycle. Nitrite always spikes higher than ammonia in a fish-in cycle, and has to be monitored from the start to play things safe Nitrate is not toxic untill it gets between 400 and 1000ppm, depending on which research paper you believe, but you use it as a guide for how much other toxins have built up. As a guide, nitrate should be no more than 50ppm above that of your source water reading Nitrite and Ammonia are toxic to fish above 0.25ppm, and hence require far more attention

All the best
Rabbut

 

[jackson 10]

yes i agree with rabbut if you want sharks fella get some bala sharks

 

[JenCliBee]

yes i agree with rabbut if you want sharks fella get some bala sharks

dont get bala sharks your tank is way 2 small !!!

 

[Joller]

Thanks for the help guys
and to answer jackson10 I set it up 5 days ago, the sharks would occasionally swim up but not often, when I fed them.
Wikipedia says the RTBS prefer 22-24d Celsius, and my tank is about 29
Also do live plants help the situation?

 

[jackson 10]

yes i agree with rabbut if you want sharks fella get some bala sharks

dont get bala sharks your tank is way 2 small !!!

oopps sorry miss read your thread thought you had a big tankyou will need at least 150 gallon plus for silver sharks

yes i agree with rabbut if you want sharks fella get some bala sharks

dont get bala sharks your tank is way 2 small !!!

oopps sorry miss read your thread thought you had a big tankyou will need at least 150 gallon plus for silver sharks

you need to cycle your tank fella best way is try and get hold of some filter media form a mature tank that will speed up your tank cycle

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the site Joller.
You have fallen into the most common of new fishkeeper mistakes. You have fish in a tank that has not been cycled yet. Right now your fish are producing some ammonia which will eventually be converted to nitrites and then to nitrates. Only the nitrates are even close to safe for the fish. The ammonia and nitrites are both poisonous. What that means is that you need to perform frequent water changes using a dechlorinator to keep the poisons the fish create diluted. If your fish are showing any stress or are not swimming like they should be, do a 50% water change to help them recover. There is a link in my signature area that will take you to some information about doing a fish-in cycle. You need to go there and read up on it to understand what you are going to do next. After that, if you have any questions, please come back and we will help you get things straightened out.

 

[MHunt]

With the low fish load you have now you should be able to manage the ammonia and nitrite till the filter cycles with regular water changes. I would get the temp down too, I keep my tanks at about 25-26C. 29 is too hot for normal conditions, i only put mine as high as that when treating something like whitespot. The other sthink I would try is to see if there's a fishkeeper near you with a mature filter that's willing to donate some mature media or even a mature filter that you could use to cycle your own filter media.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, agree with the other members, you are in a Fish-In cycling situation, very common for beginners. The link and advice of oldman47 is your best way to proceed. You'll need to study that carefully and report what actions you're taking or ask questions.

What sort of tests are you using? Test strips can be misleading and are not good enough for good feedback. You'll need a good liquid-reagent based test kit in order to get feedback about what your water-change frequency and percentage is accomplishing. Fish-In cyclng is all about figuring out how and when to do these water changes and really doing them.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Joller]

Alright well i did a 30% water change this afternoon and the fish are looking good, And I've got a friend who's going to lend me some mature filter content, thanks for all the help guys

 

[Joller]

I couldn't get the filter content due to my friend having a (black grass?) algae problem that I don't also want.
That being said I got some liquid tests for nitrate and nitrite and they both read nil. (ammonia also nil)
Isn't one of the tests meant to show a reading of some sort?

My angel fish are doing well
Would electric yellows go good with my angel fish?