Dent/Hole in Gourami, what the hell???

[norbie]

This isn't a very clear picture, but you can an idea of the size of this 'dent' or hole that has appeared in my prize red honey gourami

I'm not sure if it's getting progressively bigger or if it's the same size as when I first noticed it, and she seems to be behaving normally, and eating OK.

She is the biggest fish in the tank, so I don't think anyone has attacked her, it's like a dent, but almost like a chunk of her has gone missing.

She's been extra fat for months now, I thought possibly pregnant, but there isn't really anywhere suitable for the male to make a bubble nest.
I take it this isn't how she would dispose of the eggs?

This makes me feel sick when looking at her, it's like seeing a family member with a big chunk of their chest missing

Please, if you have any suggestions or ideas or anything I can do to help, reply.

I can't really get any better photos, she's camera shy

 

[Kopix Nation]

Poor Baby!!!! Was it like this when you got her???She might have been born like this..Is it a chunk or a dent?

claire

 

[jollysue]

Oh! norbie, I'm so sorry. The honeys are so sweet.

 

[sylvia]

That doesn't look very good... is she acting different? Is she still eating etc? Does she have any protruding, pineconing scales? - she looks rather bloated. You should probably isolat her in a cycled quarantine tank in order to keep tress to a minnimum and ensure that if she is actualy ill the disease is not passed on. Are you sure no one has been bullying her? Is it an actual hole or a dent inwards? Also, just in case, what are your water parameters? Do a few water changes they're always useful regardless of the actual problem. If it's an actual injury, watch it doesn't get infected. If she is acting distressed, with something like that, you may want to euthanise with some clove oil and save her from too much suffering and also the other fish from stress or becoming ill.

 

[norbie]

Thanks for your replies.

No, she was fine when I first got her (probably about 6 months ago?)

She is eating normally and mostly acting the same, although she tends to hang around hiding in one spot more than she did before.

I haven't seen any signs of bullying at all, and it now appears to be more like a hole rather than a dent
There's been a few trails of stuff coming out, a bit like string, but certainly not something like a worm infection - appears to be bits of flesh or insides

Water paramaters.. I occasionally have high nitrate problems due to bad tap water but that's always been the case, and only bottom feeders have ever really suffered from it. All other fish are fine and well (some heavily pregnant!).
I no longer have any other tanks to transfer an ill fish across to (only a floating breeder tank which would be tiny for the gourami).

Do you think euthanising her is the best option? I agree that there seems to be nothing else I can do for her.
Which method would you recommend? I don't have any clove oil.

 

[Kopix Nation]

The best way is to take her out with a net and Very quickly wack her on something hard. It kills them instantly. Or put her in club soda that works too.
you could still keep her if she is not in pain.

claire

 

[norbie]

The best way is to take her out with a net and Very quickly wack her on something hard. It kills them instantly. Or put her in club soda that works too.
you could still keep her if she is not in pain.

claire

[snapback]909701[/snapback]​

Well it looks like that's what I'm going to have to do.

Is that the best way? I wanted to try and investigate the damage after she's dead but there wouldn't be much left if I did that

 

[jollysue]

Everyone says that cloves is best. I have heard something about vodka. You could ask Wilder and Wolf in the emergency forum. I would do that before you euthanize anyway.

 

[Kopix Nation]

I a sorry for you having to do that......is she really that bad?

claire

 

[norbie]

Well the hole looks horrible in her, so she must be dying anyway

I will see if I can find some clove oil when the shops open tomorrow.

Should I get another gourami for the soon to be alone small male gourami?
Are females generally much bigger than the males? This one is about twice the size of the male, and they've never really got on. (Female chases the male off).

 

[Kopix Nation]

is there a spot for them to make a bubble nest?If so than sure but if not it could be a diffrent gourami...I think..

claire

 

[jollysue]

The female is much bigger and more discus shaped. If he doesn't have a bubble nest then he can't court and attract her. She will chase him off. The he(s) are more delicate looking--a little effeminate looking to me. I'm not sure that there is another smaller yellow anabantoid that looks like the honey. The male wouldn't be following and interacting with a female from another species like that. Poor little folk.

 

[sylvia]

Males do fine on their own. Also, dwarf males usualy grow to at least the same size as females though they are less wide in the body and generaly look slimmer/more streamlined. Oh and, am I wrong in thinking this is a dwarf (colisa lalia) and not a honey (colisa chuna/sota)? Euthanising is the best option by the sounds of it (if it's getting worse and things are coming out of it ). Clove oil is the only truly humane method besides destroying the brain (wacking the head realy hard or smashing it). Most other methods - such as freezing or using alcohol - won't kill the fish instantly. Also, gouramies breathe air so taking them out of the water won't cause them to suffocate. In this sense, taking a gourami out and smashing its head isn't as destressing as it would be for most other species. It also means you HAVE to destroy the brain - even if you use clove oil - or the fish may, in the event that it actualy recovers, suffers unecessarily as it dries out and dies after several hours. Still, clove oil is the very best option.

 

[norbie]

I am unsure what species they are - the LFS isn't too good at that

At the moment I'm giving her a while to see how it goes, if it gets worse then I have found some clove oil to use. Apparently you have to freeze after they are sleeping to make sure they are dead? I really don't want to have to stab her in the brain.

How can I post a link to an external site here?
I wanted to asl if these instructions were ok, but it wont let me.

kokosgoldfishDOTCOM/EuthanizingFish.html

 

[Kopix Nation]

Sorry but it is for the best.....oh well you can't keep them all .

claire