Dead Discus

shaz-killie · Jan 24, 2009

now I know this won't come as a surprise to some of you. woke up this morning and my biggest one is dying and his mate is not far behind.

now obviously I want to fix this as quick as possibly they both have a swollen stomach and they were the ones that were eating the floating food I got so is this the result of the ammonia that was in the water, the fact I changed the levels they were used to or the floating food as they were very active last night before I went to bed and 8hrs later it's belly up.

just done a 50% w/c and will test in half an hour, plan to do 3 x 50% x/c changes today

I'll post results when I've took them

many thanks

shaz-killie · Jan 24, 2009

ok something has crashed the ph over night, could it be the bogwood? removed it just incase. both discus are kind of alive now, can't see them making it though.

ph is 6
nitrate 5
ammonia 0
nitrite 0

is there a max number of 50% water changes i can do before I start causing issues with other levels?

mwood2 · Jan 24, 2009

far as I know as long as you wait an hour between water changes it's fine. Main thing is to keep those levels down since there so sensitive. Where they eating properly before this? Perhaps try squished pea to help with any constipation? Just take some peas in water, nuke for a few seconds and squish and feed.

Also try tropical emergency section.

shaz-killie · Jan 24, 2009

thanks, think i'm starting to get on top of the ph, it's going to be a big swing back to 6.4 in the hope of saving the rest of them. the two sick ones are at least swimming (well nose down) so it's got to be better in there for them if it's bringing fish back from being on there side floating on the surface. I know heavy changes in ph isn't good but think this morning it had to be done. I'll keep it stable at 6.4 today and gradually increase it.

well until someone logs on and tell me i'm doing this all wrong as i'm only guessing at what to do at the moment

drobbyb · Jan 24, 2009

Discus thrive at low pH, however your nitrifying bacteria do not. You have "stalled" them by having a pH that low. Remember that you don't want to change the pH more than .2 in a 24 hour period. Test for ammonia and if there is some, do waterchanges to control it. pH shock and ammonia are both fish killers and this can be a dangerous situation.

rabbut · Jan 24, 2009

Tank bred Discus IME Drobbyb don't do very well at all at a low pH

They actually seem to prefur a nutral to slightly alkaline pH, unless they are wild caught or German bred stock...

The commonn idea of pH shock does not exist. A fish can change it's internal pH by 2 full points within 15 mins, so only REALY large swings will affect them badly, say if you get more than 5 full points, or if you get below pH 3... What most people believe to be pH shock is actually Carbonate Hardness shock, as this takes longer for a fish to adjust to, and dropping it too fast will efectively poison a fish from the inside out. Going up a gratient isn't so bad, but could potenetialy remove some essential nutrients from the fishes body temperarily... TBH, I'd b quite happy pulling up the pH from 6.6 to 7.5 in one day, provided the hardness difference wan't more than say 2-3 points. The only thing to note though is that if KH isn't going up with pH, it won't stay up long...

Shaz, you are doing the best you can in this situation. Keep it up, doing exactly as you have said you will :good:

All the best
Rabbut

shaz-killie · Jan 24, 2009

well just in from a night out and done another 50% change, no point me testing water at the mo, will do in the morning.

all I can say is all fish are alive and that is far better than yesterday morning but they still don't look happy. prob because I've annoyed them and getting used to the water being more normal. haha why isn't discus keeping an exact science, would be far easier if it was.

thanks Rabbut, i really thought I had kiled them with a massive ph swing, only time will tell and daily, hourly water checks

Forcas · Jan 25, 2009

shaz-killie said:
ok something has crashed the ph over night, could it be the bogwood? removed it just incase. both discus are kind of alive now, can't see them making it though.

ph is 6
nitrate 5
ammonia 0
nitrite 0

is there a max number of 50% water changes i can do before I start causing issues with other levels?

was the bogwood new ?

shaz-killie · Jan 25, 2009

yes. oh discus have made a full recovery now. don't want to tempt fate and say everything is looking happy now but it's getting there

Darkerwhite2 · Jan 25, 2009

shaz-killie said:
yes. oh discus have made a full recovery now. don't want to tempt fate and say everything is looking happy now but it's getting there

Good to hear, i have no experience with discus so i would not have been able to answer your questions but im glad to hear that they are doing better.

shaz-killie · Jan 25, 2009

you and me both, don't think i've ever moved so fast when I saw them floating on the surface. guess all the drastic action worked though

drobbyb · Jan 25, 2009

rabbut said:
Tank bred Discus IME Drobbyb don't do very well at all at a low pH They actually seem to prefur a nutral to slightly alkaline pH, unless they are wild caught or German bred stock...

The commonn idea of pH shock does not exist. A fish can change it's internal pH by 2 full points within 15 mins, so only REALY large swings will affect them badly, say if you get more than 5 full points, or if you get below pH 3... What most people believe to be pH shock is actually Carbonate Hardness shock, as this takes longer for a fish to adjust to, and dropping it too fast will efectively poison a fish from the inside out. Going up a gratient isn't so bad, but could potenetialy remove some essential nutrients from the fishes body temperarily... TBH, I'd b quite happy pulling up the pH from 6.6 to 7.5 in one day, provided the hardness difference wan't more than say 2-3 points. The only thing to note though is that if KH isn't going up with pH, it won't stay up long...

Shaz, you are doing the best you can in this situation. Keep it up, doing exactly as you have said you will

All the best
Rabbut

If you say so. I say that too much of a pH change will hurt your fish. I have seen countless fish killed by pH shock, so believe what you want.

I'm glad they are doing better.

San O Fisher · Jan 25, 2009

Feel your pain, I am glad you were able to save them! I think I had the same thing happen a couple months back with my tank, and lost one of my discuss, and almost my second one too, but a couple water changes and he is my healthiest a few months later.

shaz-killie · Jan 26, 2009

yeah there both back to the same old characters they were, not sure if it will have caused any long lasting effects though but they seem happy. my ph is now stable at 6.6 with 2 water changes a day and since they are happily swimming around at that i'm happy to leave it at that level. and the bristlenose can get the bogwood in another tank when it wants to breed.