Cycling with plants without ammonia?

[Seb2502]

Hi all,

I’ve started up a 75 gallon aquarium with lots of plants.
Salvinia
Java fern
Ludwigia
Repens
Bacopa
Rotala
And a few crypts that died back.
If you would like actual species names I can let you know.

The substrate is gravel from an old aquarium but I rinsed it thoroughly with tap water.

I have 2 large pieces of drift wood in there and I purchased another one however I’m letting it soak in very hot water constantly to try and remove most of the tannins.

I’m curious if the bacteria will form without the addition of ammonia. The plants were purchased from random people on Kijiji. Will they have sufficient ammonia on them to cycle the aquarium?

I’m fine with substituting ammonia with fish flakes, or turtle pellets. I’m just extremely scared to have an algae bloom as my 20 gallon aquarium is practically condemned.

The tank has been running for 8 days now and the plants seem to be doing alright besides the crypts. Although I’m told they’ll bounce back. I’ve also placed root tabs in for them.

I’ve noticed a bit of biofilm surrounding the pieces of wood and a couple large rocks. When would be a good time to add shrimp?

Sorry for all the questions please lmk if you can answer any of them. Thanks!

 

[Seb2502]

Hi all,

I’ve started up a 75 gallon aquarium with lots of plants.
Salvinia
Java fern
Ludwigia
Repens
Bacopa
Rotala
And a few crypts that died back.
If you would like actual species names I can let you know.

The substrate is gravel from an old aquarium but I rinsed it thoroughly with tap water.

I have 2 large pieces of drift wood in there and I purchased another one however I’m letting it soak in very hot water constantly to try and remove most of the tannins.

I’m curious if the bacteria will form without the addition of ammonia. The plants were purchased from random people on Kijiji. Will they have sufficient ammonia on them to cycle the aquarium?

I’m fine with substituting ammonia with fish flakes, or turtle pellets. I’m just extremely scared to have an algae bloom as my 20 gallon aquarium is practically condemned.

The tank has been running for 8 days now and the plants seem to be doing alright besides the crypts. Although I’m told they’ll bounce back. I’ve also placed root tabs in for them.

I’ve noticed a bit of biofilm surrounding the pieces of wood and a couple large rocks. When would be a good time to add shrimp?

Sorry for all the questions please lmk if you can answer any of them. Thanks!

Forgot to mention that my pH is about 7.4
My gH is around 7 dgH. And my kH is around 10 dkH. Nitrates and Nitrites are practically 0.

 

[Essjay]

As long as the plants are growing well, you don't need to grow bacteria as the plants will remove the ammonia made by the fish. A few bacteria will grow in the background, but not nearly as many as in a tank with no live plants. Apart from the Java fern, the plants you name are reasonably fast growing, which is what you need. You have floating plants (salvinia) and these are particularly good at removing ammonia.
Take a photo of the tank so you have something to compare the plants to in a couple of week, and if they are noticeably bigger it will be OK to add the first fish.
With this method the fish should be added a batch at a time, testing after each addition to make sure ammonia and nitrite stay at zero.


Edit - re the crypts, they are well known for melting when first put in a tank as they don't like being moved. They should regrow.

 

[Seb2502]

As long as the plants are growing well, you don't need to grow bacteria as the plants will remove the ammonia made by the fish. A few bacteria will grow in the background, but not nearly as many as in a tank with no live plants. Apart from the Java fern, the plants you name are reasonably fast growing, which is what you need. You have floating plants (salvinia) and these are particularly good at removing ammonia.
Take a photo of the tank so you have something to compare the plants to in a couple of week, and if they are noticeably bigger it will be OK to add the first fish.
With this method the fish should be added a batch at a time, testing after each addition to make sure ammonia and nitrite stay at zero.


Edit - re the crypts, they are well known for melting when first put in a tank as they don't like being moved. They should regrow.

Yes I’ve already taken photos from when they were first added and they seem to be growing nicely.

How many fish at a time would you recommend? I’m only planning on putting small tetras and otos.

Fingers crossed with the crypts, knowing my luck they’re gone for good lol!

 

[Essjay]

Since shoaling fish need to be added a whole shoal at the same time and you have a 75 gallon tank, it should be OK to add them a shoal at a time - unless of course you are planning on one enormous shoal of one species . If at any point you get ammonia and/or nitrite showing up, wait a few weeks before adding more fish.

The otos should be left till last so there is some algae to feed them with. I know you don't want algae after the 20 gallon but otos do need some until (or if) they start eating other food.
I should have mentioned before that shrimps should also be left a while until the water conditions are thoroughly stable. They are more sensitive than fish to fluctuating conditions.

 

[Seb2502]

Since shoaling fish need to be added a whole shoal at the same time and you have a 75 gallon tank, it should be OK to add them a shoal at a time - unless of course you are planning on one enormous shoal of one species . If at any point you get ammonia and/or nitrite showing up, wait a few weeks before adding more fish.

The otos should be left till last so there is some algae to feed them with. I know you don't want algae after the 20 gallon but otos do need some until (or if) they start eating other food.
I should have mentioned before that shrimps should also be left a while until the water conditions are thoroughly stable. They are more sensitive than fish to fluctuating conditions.

Awesome, yea I was thinking I add a shoal at a time.
Cardinal tetras
Rummy nose tetras
Ember tetras
Silvertip tetras (maybe)
If you were wondering lol

And yea I figured I should wait for the otos

However there is a bit of biofilm for the shrimp however maybe I should wait for the cycling still?

 

[Essjay]

Yes, I would wait to add the shrimps, they can be delicate little things. If everything is OK in 3 months you can try a few, and if they are OK then get more.

It is usually said that a mature tank is one which has been running 6 months by which time a whole host of micro-organisms will have grown in addition to the ones which 'eat' ammonia and nitrite. It is these micro-organisms which stabilise the chemistry of a tank.

 

[Seb2502]

Yes, I would wait to add the shrimps, they can be delicate little things. If everything is OK in 3 months you can try a few, and if they are OK then get more.

It is usually said that a mature tank is one which has been running 6 months by which time a whole host of micro-organisms will have grown in addition to the ones which 'eat' ammonia and nitrite. It is these micro-organisms which stabilise the chemistry of a tank.

Interesting, well thanks a lot for the help!

 

[Byron]

Cardinal tetras
Rummy nose tetras
Ember tetras
Silvertip tetras (maybe)

You definitely want to add the entire intended number of each of these species at the same time. Shoaling fish settle in much faster and with less stress the more there are of the species.

A couple of questions/issues now. First, the Silvertips...not a major problem but they can finnip sedate fish, so you may want to re-think this species if you have plans for say gourami, cichlids, or even sedate tetras like some of the beautiful "Rosy" species.

Second a question, how many of each species are you considering? I'll cut to the chase here and say that you want good-sized groups as you have the space and the more there are the better they will manage. The Rummynose especially, I would never go below 12-15, but in this tank a group of 20 would be ideal. I had 21 in my 4-foot 70g tank a few years ago, and they were very enjoyable. The Ember Tetra being small will fare better with a larger group too, and again I would say somewhere in the 15-20 (or more, up to you) range. The cardinals will be good with 12-15 for their colour, but again more is up to you.

I agree with all of @Essjay previous posts here.

 

[Seb2502]

You definitely want to add the entire intended number of each of these species at the same time. Shoaling fish settle in much faster and with less stress the more there are of the species.

A couple of questions/issues now. First, the Silvertips...not a major problem but they can finnip sedate fish, so you may want to re-think this species if you have plans for say gourami, cichlids, or even sedate tetras like some of the beautiful "Rosy" species.

Second a question, how many of each species are you considering? I'll cut to the chase here and say that you want good-sized groups as you have the space and the more there are the better they will manage. The Rummynose especially, I would never go below 12-15, but in this tank a group of 20 would be ideal. I had 21 in my 4-foot 70g tank a few years ago, and they were very enjoyable. The Ember Tetra being small will fare better with a larger group too, and again I would say somewhere in the 15-20 (or more, up to you) range. The cardinals will be good with 12-15 for their colour, but again more is up to you.

I agree with all of @Essjay previous posts here.

Yea I’m planning on having quite a large amount of fish per shoal. I’m also planning of redoing my 20gallon and possible attempting to breed each species of tetra. And I wasn’t sure about the silvertip to begin with and honestly im leaning more towards not putting them in. Do you have any other examples of fish I could add? I’ve done plenty of research and I’ve concluded that im not interested in any plecos, corydoras, any type of cichlids, or livebearers. So a very slim range of options lol.

 

[Byron]

Yea I’m planning on having quite a large amount of fish per shoal. I’m also planning of redoing my 20gallon and possible attempting to breed each species of tetra. And I wasn’t sure about the silvertip to begin with and honestly im leaning more towards not putting them in. Do you have any other examples of fish I could add? I’ve done plenty of research and I’ve concluded that im not interested in any plecos, corydoras, any type of cichlids, or livebearers. So a very slim range of options lol.

Many of the tetras would be worth considering, the Rosy Tetra I mentioned and similar, Bleeding Heart are a bit larger and would look nice in this tank.