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Cycling Going Sloooooooooow

the theory behind fishless cycling is that you build up enough bacteria to support the full bioload of the tank, therefore you could stock fully right away.

however you may want to add some delicate fish which the tank can't take and you'd have to leave room for them so therefore only partly stock the tank. you'll experience some bacteria die off but it's unlikely to cause a problem, and by the time the tank is mature enough for delicate fish the bacteria colony should be able to cope with the addition of a few fish.

also you can guarantee at some point your gonna visit the lfs and see soemthing you just have to have, so it's nice to leave some room in your tank for that.

so yes if you only want hardy fish by all means fill it right up, but there's no problem with adding less fish
 
When people speak of starting with 6 fish and going slow, they are speaking of an uncycled tank and doing a cycle with fish. You only want a few fish so that the ammonia they produce won't overwhelm the tankand is manageable with daily water changes. As Miss Wiggle mentioned, the point of the fishless cycle is to build your entire colony before you add fish (actually, I'm pretty sure you will have way more bacteria than needed for a normal stocking level) thus not stressing and killing them.

There is some debate as to what the difference between a cycled tank and a mature tank. I'm not certain I know myself. When I set up my 75 gallon tank, I added 4 angels from the start. People say they need an established tank. It has been 2 years now and they are still doing great. My opinion is that if the tank is completely cycled (processing 4 ppm of ammonia completely in 10 to 12 hours to 0 ammonia and nitrite), that you should be able to add whatever fish you want.
 
i have to say i disagree with just adding anything to a cycled tank, one of the experienced members of this forum put up a great description of the difference between a cycled and mature tank a while back, i'll see if I can find it.
 
Out of interest, I'm doing a fishless cycle and I can obviously determine the amount of Ammonia being put in. How much ammonia would the fish produce in a day during cycling? Would they only register 0.25ppm or could they be hitting 1 - 2 ppm?
 
It depends on the fish and how much you feed them but is hard to tell exactly. If you do a fishless cycle as described in the link in my signature, you should definitely have a bacteria colony large enough to support a full bioload.
 
I'm testing that full bioload statement at the moment. Before I add fish (maybe a day before) I'll put in a high amount of ammonium hydroxide...maybe up to 4ppm...and time how long it takes to reduce...if its quick then I'll fully stock immediately...but if the fish tend to get stressed in a new tank with new tank mates I'll have to go stepwise in adding the fish.
 
If you complete the fishless cycle, the tank should process 4 ppm in less that 10 to 12 hours. After that time, you should have 0 ammonia and nitrite and an increased nitrate level. You can certainly add the fish in steps but you will have bacteria die-off. The amount of bacteria present in a tank (or filter I should say) is only what the bioload will support. So if you add 6 small tetras to start, all the bacteria except what is needed to process their waste will die off. When you add more fish, the bacteria will multiply until there is enough for the new load. That is why you will usually see a small mini-cycle with ammonia and nitrite present for a short time. The bacteria haven't caught up with the waste load yet.
 
Super answer there rdd...nice one!! It is something that I already knew but like everything in this world, its great to have things clarified by someone else!! :)

I'll have to get thinking about what to put in!!
 
Thanks guys for the replies. I do think that the definition of a matured tank should be explained. When I last kept fish, which was over 10 years ago and no-one had really heard of fishless cycling, I added the fish in stages and never had a problem.

It looks like I won't be able to put any fish in the tank before I go, which isn't a big deal as long as the autofeeder idea works and the tank continues to cycle until I get back. I can't find the corys' I want locally so I would have had to go to an online retailer or order them in, so I guess I will just have to be patient and get the fish next time.

Cheers
 
Miss Wiggle said:
trying to find the definition of a mature tank as opposed to a cycled one

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=187865
Click to expand...

Thanks Miss Wiggle.

I think I got a false reading from my nitrates the other day as they're back down to 5. I think that it's stalled. I shall do a water change and set up the auto feeder.

I was thinking of dropping the flakes into a net so they don't spread around the tank and maybe running a power head to direct the water flow through it. It would save me cleaning up a gunky mess in a week or so! Also any ideas as to how many flakes per day I should add? I know that achieving 4ppm per day with flake is going to be a tough one and subject to a lot of errors but even if I was just able to keep some of the bacteria living and hopefully get the nitrites down, I could carry on proper when I get back.
 
as you said it's hard to get an exact science with it, especially as fish food will decay and release ammonia slowly rather than the minute it's in the water as you would get with adding pure ammonia.

personally i'd just go for lots. it'd mean a bit vaccing up at the end of the week when you come back, but the more ammonia the more chance you have of bacteria surviving and developing well while youre away.

guess it depends if your priority is getting the tank cycled quicker or having less work to do cleaning when you get back
 
I don't know what's going on with this cycle at the moment.

I tested the water yesterday and got readings of Ammonia - 0, NitrIte +3 (off scale) and NitrAte was 40-80 (difficult to tell the diff on the chart). I tested again last night and the Ammonia and NitrIte were the same but the NitrAte were back down at 5. I thought the earlier NitrAte reading must have been a mistake as no way could the plants consume that much (could they?).

I've just tested the water again (more or less the same time as yesterday) and the NitrAtes are up again at about 40.

I will test again later this evening but it seems strange to get the same result in the afternoon when at night the NitrAtes have dropped. Surely the NitrAtes should be going off the chart and the NitrItes should be the reading that drops!
 
If you have only added the ammonia once and it has just gotten to zero, you're nitrite would not be very high and you shouldn't have any nitrate unless it's in your tap water. You said you tested the water yesterday and had no ammonia and then today it was the same. Did you add more ammonia? If not, you are losing what bacteria you have developed because they don't have a food source. Before the cycle finishes, you will have to add ammonia for quite a bit longer. The nitrite should spike off the chart and then the nitrates should start to steadily climb. It generally takes about twice as long for the nitrite to spike and return to zero as it did for the ammonia to go to zero the first time (about 10 days in your case).
 
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