Cycle

[ShyKitty91]

Hello,
I realize there are tonnes of topics on this already but I've already read over 10 and can't find what I'm looking for (watch it's going to be in one of the obvious ones I didn't read.)

Ammonia is supposed to skyrocket, then as it lowers, nitrites skyrocket, and as nitrites lower, nitrates go up. Nitrates should never go above 25ppm. 0 0 25. This is how I understand it, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I tested the water I was refilling with. Yes, I made sure there wasn't chlorine and like chlorine products (I am blanking on the name.) The water company says they can't add chlorine because it would kill the grass (I am not understanding if they have seperate pipes for indoor/outdoor or what but that seemed wrong..)

I get it from the outside tap at my dads house and transport it to my moms were I'm living right now. A bit of a hassel but close enough to get emergency water change water if I need it (20 min drive. The difference between town water and village water is crazy.) Rambling.. It has a pH of 7.6 (which ideally is what I want the tank at,) NH3 is 0.4 (odd right..?) and NO2 is 0.2.

Anyways, I test every few days for pH, and daily for NH3 and NO2. I did a 1/3 water change today and other than pH (lowered from 8.2 to 8) the levels are THE SAME afterwards when I tested again.

NH3 had risen to 0.6 in the first 3 days and is now at 0.9. NO2 had went from 0 (yes, 0, even though the water put in was 0.2) to 0.3 in the first 3 days and is now at 1.6. Wish I knew what NO3 was, need to pick up a test for it. And soon! (Probably wednesday.)

I have been using cycle, I've read up on it and it really doesn't have any good reviews, but it's all I got (given to me.) Seems to be doing something at least. I read that someone had luck with it by adding it daily (10mL) instead of 6cap fulls weekly after water changes. Opinions?

PS. My seeds don't seem to be helping at all. It was a week of cycling Saturday afternoon.

 

[the_lock_man]

What type of test kit are you using? Other than what is in your tap water, what are you using to provide ammonia for the filter to cycle (ie bottled ammonia, or fish, or what)?

NO3 is safe for fish at levels under about 300ppm.

 

[ShyKitty91]

What type of test kit are you using? Other than what is in your tap water, what are you using to provide ammonia for the filter to cycle (ie bottled ammonia, or fish, or what)?

NO3 is safe for fish at levels under about 300ppm.

This post has been edited by the_lock_man: Today, 03:43 AM

The tests I have are hagen liquid drop tests. Where you put water in a vile, the solution, shake, and hold it up against a card to compare..

I was under the impression that is what the product cycle did (among adding bacteria.) It smells like fish food..


EDIT: "Desired Level
In nature nitrates remain very low, generally well below 5 ppm. In freshwater aquariums nitrates should be kept below 50 ppm at all times, preferably below 25 ppm. If you are breeding fish, or are battling algae growth, keep nitrates below 10 ppm."

"Effect on Fish
Fish will feel the impact of nitrates by the time the levels reach 100 ppm, particularly if levels remain there. The resulting stress leaves the fish more susceptible to disease and inhibits their ability to reproduce."

Nitrates would kill fish at levels that high..

 

[hanny93]

They don't kill fish at levels that high, as many people on here will prove to you

Cycle does nothing, bacteria cannot survive for the amount of time that those bottles are usually sealed for, so you are better off starting afresh.

Have you read the beginners resource centre?

 

[the_lock_man]

In that case, I can't understand why your levels are fluctuating as they are. I can only assume it's the Cycle that's confusing the issue.

I believe Cycle is (theoretically) bacteria to process the ammonia being produced by fish - that bacteria still need their food source to survive. If you've not got an ammonia source (ie bottled ammonia or fish) any bacteria that you may or may not have had in the filter will die.

I reckon your best bet (and if others disagree, please say so) is to do a massive water change, and start again with bottled ammonia. Have a read of this.

 

[ShyKitty91]

They don't kill fish at levels that high, as many people on here will prove to you

Cycle does nothing, bacteria cannot survive for the amount of time that those bottles are usually sealed for, so you are better off starting afresh.

Have you read the beginners resource centre?

Ah, that's kind of.. Absurd. I think I will try to keep NO3 at least bellow 50.. Just because I would personally feel better about it.

Yes, I have. I had the whole filter from another, healthy, tank to use as a seed. Hense the comment about it not working.

There is kind of a story behind why I am getting my tank filled, finally.
My father, whenever he would come visit, would look at the empty 30G I have and say, "you need some friends in that there tank." One weekend, on the way to a family BBQ, I mentioned that a friends fish had died after 10+ years of having it and didn't want another one. (Imagine having the same fish from age 12-23. Took it to college with her and everything.) So he said, "Ask her for the filter," so I did, and she saved it in a bucket of tank water for me. I'm not sure if the bacteria could of died because it sat in that bucket full of water for over a week (never dried out.) The next weekend my father brought me some cycle, which I why I have it opposed to biospira, and pH, NO2, and NH3 tests. He also had crated 30G of water from his house to put in the tank. He told me he would buy the replacement sponge/charcoal for the filter as I needed them, and food, and water from his house, and fish once cycled. I think he thinks I'm really lonely. Haha.

Ammonia is expensive. I don't have the heart to ask him to buy some for me since he is already doing so much. I really don't have the extra cash to get it myself. So.. I was trying to do with what I had.

PS. If anyone who has read my other topics is reading this, the father that did the above is my adoptive dad, opposed to my biological dad who had kept fish and given me the tank.

 

[Miles_hot]

Can you clarity if you have fish in the tank?
If not have you been adding ammonia to the tank?
What is the difference between town and country water (in chemical terms rather than taste)?
Thanks

 

[ShyKitty91]

In that case, I can't understand why your levels are fluctuating as they are. I can only assume it's the Cycle that's confusing the issue.

I believe Cycle is (theoretically) bacteria to process the ammonia being produced by fish - that bacteria still need their food source to survive. If you've not got an ammonia source (ie bottled ammonia or fish) any bacteria that you may or may not have had in the filter will die.

I reckon your best bet (and if others disagree, please say so) is to do a massive water change, and start again with bottled ammonia. Have a read of this.

Read the post after yours.

Originally I was going to wait until I had the money to fill and care for the tank myself. I was going to use ammonia to cycle plus biospira.

 

[ShyKitty91]

Can you clarity if you have fish in the tank?
If not have you been adding ammonia to the tank?
What is the difference between town and country water (in chemical terms rather than taste)?
Thanks

I do not have any fish.
I have been using cycle unfortunately (mentioned in another post.)
The water my moms house uses is well water. It has extrememly high levels of sulfur, iron, and calcium.
Needless to say.. My family only uses it to cook with and, unfortunately, to shower with, gives you a slimy feeling, ick. Cannot drink it without getting sick for weeks on end. Can't say what it would do to a fish, but it would probably be very bad.

 

[the_lock_man]

They don't kill fish at levels that high, as many people on here will prove to you

Cycle does nothing, bacteria cannot survive for the amount of time that those bottles are usually sealed for, so you are better off starting afresh.

Have you read the beginners resource centre?

Ah, that's kind of.. Absurd. I think I will try to keep NO3 at least bellow 50.. Just because I would personally feel better about it.

Yes, I have. I had the whole filter from another, healthy, tank to use as a seed. Hense the comment about it not working.

There is kind of a story behind why I am getting my tank filled, finally.
My father, whenever he would come visit, would look at the empty 30G I have and say, "you need some friends in that there tank." One weekend, on the way to a family BBQ, I mentioned that a friends fish had died after 10+ years of having it and didn't want another one. (Imagine having the same fish from age 12-23. Took it to college with her and everything.) So he said, "Ask her for the filter," so I did, and she saved it in a bucket of tank water for me. I'm not sure if the bacteria could of died because it sat in that bucket full of water for over a week (never dried out.) The next weekend my father brought me some cycle, which I why I have it opposed to biospira, and pH, NO2, and NH3 tests. He also had crated 30G of water from his house to put in the tank. He told me he would buy the replacement sponge/charcoal for the filter as I needed them, and food, and water from his house, and fish once cycled. I think he thinks I'm really lonely. Haha.

Ammonia is expensive. I don't have the heart to ask him to buy some for me since he is already doing so much. I really don't have the extra cash to get it myself. So.. I was trying to do with what I had.

PS. If anyone who has read my other topics is reading this, the father that did the above is my adoptive dad, opposed to my biological dad who had kept fish and given me the tank.

If you want to keep nitrate that low, it's not a problem, it's just more water changes.

It was a good thing to keep the filter wet, and you may be lucky that some bacteria survived, but like any living organism, the bacteria need food to survive. In their case, it's ammonia. If they didn't get that, they will start to die off.

If you don't want to ask your dad for pure ammonia, and I quite understand why, then your only other option is a fish-in cycle - again read the Beginners Resource Centre on that. I would still say do a massive water change (pretty much 100%, or as close as you can), as I still reckon that's the only thing that can be making your readings fluctuate like that.

Fish-in cycling, basically, means doing enough water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm until such time as you are able to change the water again.

 

[ShyKitty91]

They don't kill fish at levels that high, as many people on here will prove to you

Cycle does nothing, bacteria cannot survive for the amount of time that those bottles are usually sealed for, so you are better off starting afresh.

Have you read the beginners resource centre?

Ah, that's kind of.. Absurd. I think I will try to keep NO3 at least bellow 50.. Just because I would personally feel better about it.

Yes, I have. I had the whole filter from another, healthy, tank to use as a seed. Hense the comment about it not working.

There is kind of a story behind why I am getting my tank filled, finally.
My father, whenever he would come visit, would look at the empty 30G I have and say, "you need some friends in that there tank." One weekend, on the way to a family BBQ, I mentioned that a friends fish had died after 10+ years of having it and didn't want another one. (Imagine having the same fish from age 12-23. Took it to college with her and everything.) So he said, "Ask her for the filter," so I did, and she saved it in a bucket of tank water for me. I'm not sure if the bacteria could of died because it sat in that bucket full of water for over a week (never dried out.) The next weekend my father brought me some cycle, which I why I have it opposed to biospira, and pH, NO2, and NH3 tests. He also had crated 30G of water from his house to put in the tank. He told me he would buy the replacement sponge/charcoal for the filter as I needed them, and food, and water from his house, and fish once cycled. I think he thinks I'm really lonely. Haha.

Ammonia is expensive. I don't have the heart to ask him to buy some for me since he is already doing so much. I really don't have the extra cash to get it myself. So.. I was trying to do with what I had.

PS. If anyone who has read my other topics is reading this, the father that did the above is my adoptive dad, opposed to my biological dad who had kept fish and given me the tank.

If you want to keep nitrate that low, it's not a problem, it's just more water changes.

It was a good thing to keep the filter wet, and you may be lucky that some bacteria survived, but like any living organism, the bacteria need food to survive. In their case, it's ammonia. If they didn't get that, they will start to die off.

If you don't want to ask your dad for pure ammonia, and I quite understand why, then your only other option is a fish-in cycle - again read the Beginners Resource Centre on that. I would still say do a massive water change (pretty much 100%, or as close as you can), as I still reckon that's the only thing that can be making your readings fluctuate like that.

Fish-in cycling, basically, means doing enough water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm until such time as you are able to change the water again.

I've done fish-in cycles before and it think it is realy inhumane (after more research on the effects on the fish.)

If I can find a small bottle of ammonia somewhere I'd buy it myself. But I only seem to find the HUGE bottles that are $60+.

 

[the_lock_man]

They don't kill fish at levels that high, as many people on here will prove to you

Cycle does nothing, bacteria cannot survive for the amount of time that those bottles are usually sealed for, so you are better off starting afresh.

Have you read the beginners resource centre?

Ah, that's kind of.. Absurd. I think I will try to keep NO3 at least bellow 50.. Just because I would personally feel better about it.

Yes, I have. I had the whole filter from another, healthy, tank to use as a seed. Hense the comment about it not working.

There is kind of a story behind why I am getting my tank filled, finally.
My father, whenever he would come visit, would look at the empty 30G I have and say, "you need some friends in that there tank." One weekend, on the way to a family BBQ, I mentioned that a friends fish had died after 10+ years of having it and didn't want another one. (Imagine having the same fish from age 12-23. Took it to college with her and everything.) So he said, "Ask her for the filter," so I did, and she saved it in a bucket of tank water for me. I'm not sure if the bacteria could of died because it sat in that bucket full of water for over a week (never dried out.) The next weekend my father brought me some cycle, which I why I have it opposed to biospira, and pH, NO2, and NH3 tests. He also had crated 30G of water from his house to put in the tank. He told me he would buy the replacement sponge/charcoal for the filter as I needed them, and food, and water from his house, and fish once cycled. I think he thinks I'm really lonely. Haha.

Ammonia is expensive. I don't have the heart to ask him to buy some for me since he is already doing so much. I really don't have the extra cash to get it myself. So.. I was trying to do with what I had.

PS. If anyone who has read my other topics is reading this, the father that did the above is my adoptive dad, opposed to my biological dad who had kept fish and given me the tank.

If you want to keep nitrate that low, it's not a problem, it's just more water changes.

It was a good thing to keep the filter wet, and you may be lucky that some bacteria survived, but like any living organism, the bacteria need food to survive. In their case, it's ammonia. If they didn't get that, they will start to die off.

If you don't want to ask your dad for pure ammonia, and I quite understand why, then your only other option is a fish-in cycle - again read the Beginners Resource Centre on that. I would still say do a massive water change (pretty much 100%, or as close as you can), as I still reckon that's the only thing that can be making your readings fluctuate like that.

Fish-in cycling, basically, means doing enough water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm until such time as you are able to change the water again.

I've done fish-in cycles before and it think it is realy inhumane (after more research on the effects on the fish.)

If it's done right, then it's perfectly humane, however, I only suggested it because you said that you didn't want to ask your father to buy ammonia.

The "Instant Cycling" products, as I understand it, claim that because they have all the bacteria you need, you can instantly put fish in your tank. This bacteria would then feed off the ammonia produced by your fish. I don't believe that any such product claims to cycle a filter fishlessly. But as you yourself have commented, there is serious doubt as to whether they actually work anyway.

Therefore you have two choices

(A) Buy ammonia.
(B) Buy a fish.

Sorry if that sounds blunt, but I feel that you're wanting me to tell you what you want to hear, not what I believe to be true.

 

[ShyKitty91]

They don't kill fish at levels that high, as many people on here will prove to you

Cycle does nothing, bacteria cannot survive for the amount of time that those bottles are usually sealed for, so you are better off starting afresh.

Have you read the beginners resource centre?

Ah, that's kind of.. Absurd. I think I will try to keep NO3 at least bellow 50.. Just because I would personally feel better about it.

Yes, I have. I had the whole filter from another, healthy, tank to use as a seed. Hense the comment about it not working.

There is kind of a story behind why I am getting my tank filled, finally.
My father, whenever he would come visit, would look at the empty 30G I have and say, "you need some friends in that there tank." One weekend, on the way to a family BBQ, I mentioned that a friends fish had died after 10+ years of having it and didn't want another one. (Imagine having the same fish from age 12-23. Took it to college with her and everything.) So he said, "Ask her for the filter," so I did, and she saved it in a bucket of tank water for me. I'm not sure if the bacteria could of died because it sat in that bucket full of water for over a week (never dried out.) The next weekend my father brought me some cycle, which I why I have it opposed to biospira, and pH, NO2, and NH3 tests. He also had crated 30G of water from his house to put in the tank. He told me he would buy the replacement sponge/charcoal for the filter as I needed them, and food, and water from his house, and fish once cycled. I think he thinks I'm really lonely. Haha.

Ammonia is expensive. I don't have the heart to ask him to buy some for me since he is already doing so much. I really don't have the extra cash to get it myself. So.. I was trying to do with what I had.

PS. If anyone who has read my other topics is reading this, the father that did the above is my adoptive dad, opposed to my biological dad who had kept fish and given me the tank.

If you want to keep nitrate that low, it's not a problem, it's just more water changes.

It was a good thing to keep the filter wet, and you may be lucky that some bacteria survived, but like any living organism, the bacteria need food to survive. In their case, it's ammonia. If they didn't get that, they will start to die off.

If you don't want to ask your dad for pure ammonia, and I quite understand why, then your only other option is a fish-in cycle - again read the Beginners Resource Centre on that. I would still say do a massive water change (pretty much 100%, or as close as you can), as I still reckon that's the only thing that can be making your readings fluctuate like that.

Fish-in cycling, basically, means doing enough water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm until such time as you are able to change the water again.

I've done fish-in cycles before and it think it is realy inhumane (after more research on the effects on the fish.)

If it's done right, then it's perfectly humane, however, I only suggested it because you said that you didn't want to ask your father to buy ammonia.

The "Instant Cycling" products, as I understand it, claim that because they have all the bacteria you need, you can instantly put fish in your tank. This bacteria would then feed off the ammonia produced by your fish. I don't believe that any such product claims to cycle a filter fishlessly. But as you yourself have commented, there is serious doubt as to whether they actually work anyway.

Therefore you have two choices

(A) Buy ammonia.
(B) Buy a fish.

Sorry if that sounds blunt, but I feel that you're wanting me to tell you what you want to hear, not what I believe to be true.

I had added something to my post but I understand completely. And I am not dense. I gathered I had those two options from an earlier post.

 

[hanny93]

500ml of ammonia costs £1.79 from boots. If you cant afford that, and I'm not being cruel or poking fun at you here, i know exactly what it feels like to be told you need to buy something and you cant afford it, but what if you cant afford food for the fish, or if something breaks, like the heater, what do you do then?

Honestly, cycle doesnt work! And although you might have a filter sitting in a bucket, there is no food source, as previously mentioned, and without food, the bacteria will die, fact.

Put the filter in the tank, dose with 4ppm of ammonia and if thefilter processes that ammonia into nitrite then nitrate, in 12 hours, then you can say cycle works and ill hold my hands up.

You will also need to continue dosing until you get new fish.

You should really get your water checked if its that disgusting that it makes you sick, it is the landlord or councils resposibility to make sure your house is liveable, that includes good water.


Also, you never need to change the filter sponges, unless they fall apart, and you dont need carbon unless youre removing medications/tannins etc from the water.

 

[Miles_hot]

Can you clarity if you have fish in the tank?
If not have you been adding ammonia to the tank?
What is the difference between town and country water (in chemical terms rather than taste)?
Thanks

I do not have any fish.
I have been using cycle unfortunately (mentioned in another post.)
The water my moms house uses is well water. It has extrememly high levels of sulfur, iron, and calcium.
Needless to say.. My family only uses it to cook with and, unfortunately, to shower with, gives you a slimy feeling, ick. Cannot drink it without getting sick for weeks on end. Can't say what it would do to a fish, but it would probably be very bad.

The reason I asked about the water at the house was the concern that if you need to do a water change the logistics of it might either make it much harder to do or cause you to put it off for a day etc which could be detremental to your fish / cycle depending on which road you go down.
Is the town water meterred? If not you could look at the RO route where you filter all the bad stuff out (either cheap one stage - lots of waste water or more expensive 3 stage with much less waste as I understand it). You might also want to look at what PRIME does - I understand that it locks away heavy metals etc however I don't know if that would apply to sulphur and the sort of quantities that you hvae - maybe an email to them would help?
Out of interested why do you cook with it if you can't drink it - surely it would taint your food unless the major contaminant is biological (bugs and hormones etc)?

If you can't get the bottled ammonia look at the fish flake / prawn decomposing in the tank method. These have their advocates (not least in terms of the greater complexity of items released) however the smell / uncontrolled nature of them put me off...
Regards
Miles