Cycle Question

[backtotropical]

Great, glad you agree BTT! I'd think it easiest to grab the bicarb at the grocery and that could get going faster, while it may take a bit longer to find the bagged crushed coral at the LFS and or other decorations etc. and so they could be added later. (Of couse LFHeart might have the LFS next door, and the grocery miles away, )

~~waterdrop~~

Hi, i already have Bicarb of Soda, what should I be aiming for PH wise to get it up and running again?

Anything above 7 is ok, but between 8 - 8.5 is optimal.

 

[waterdrop]

Great, glad you agree BTT! I'd think it easiest to grab the bicarb at the grocery and that could get going faster, while it may take a bit longer to find the bagged crushed coral at the LFS and or other decorations etc. and so they could be added later. (Of couse LFHeart might have the LFS next door, and the grocery miles away, )

~~waterdrop~~

Hi, i already have Bicarb of Soda, what should I be aiming for PH wise to get it up and running again?

Here's a summary of pH ranges and A-Bac/N-Bac growth:

pH below 5.5 = possible danger of bacteria die-off
pH 5.5 to 6.2 = cycling process stalled or stopped
pH 6.3 to 7.0 = slow beneficial bacterial development
pH 7.1 to 7.9 = faster beneficial bacterial development
pH 8.0 to 8.4 = optimal/fastest bacterial development
pH 8.5 to 8.9 = too high, slower bacterial development
ph above 9.0 = possible danger of bacteria die-off

(gee, it looks so official, doesn't it? don't hold me go it!)
~~waterdrop~~

 

[Dave Spencer]

...with all the N's in the water ammonia, nitrite and nitrate this will soften the water quickly and you may have to keep your eye on this and be vigilant. .

Sorry fishman3, but this is not correct. They affect the pH, with the ammonia actually increasing it.

Dave.

 

[Lord Fishheart]

I added Bicarb this morning and raised the PH to acceptable level.

Should I witness a drop to Zero in Ammonia now?

 

[rabbut]

Eventually, but a prolonged low pH means you may be back as square one

Baking Soda can be bought in bulk 1KG (or 200 tea spoon) bags for £8.25 online, in the form of marine aquarium balling salts. Go to a discount home supplies store (Home Bargains e.t.c) and you'll probibly get the same 1KG pot for like £2...

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Lord Fishheart]

Eventually, but a prolonged low pH means you may be back as square one

Baking Soda can be bought in bulk 1KG (or 200 tea spoon) bags for £8.25 online, in the form of marine aquarium balling salts. Go to a discount home supplies store (Home Bargains e.t.c) and you'll probibly get the same 1KG pot for like £2...

All the best
Rabbut

Just got mine from Tesco's 70p a pot!

 

[waterdrop]

Eventually, but a prolonged low pH means you may be back as square one

Baking Soda can be bought in bulk 1KG (or 200 tea spoon) bags for £8.25 online, in the form of marine aquarium balling salts. Go to a discount home supplies store (Home Bargains e.t.c) and you'll probibly get the same 1KG pot for like £2...

All the best
Rabbut

Hey rabbut, wonder if that explains what you were saying about the white stuff getting and staying on leaves and other things in your tank (?).... When I used the baking powder (I used Arm&Hammer, a popular brand in the kitchens here in US) I would just dump in the teaspoons and they would dissolve before hitting the bottom.. maybe the occasional tiny white chunk but it would be gone shortly after. -wd-

 

[rabbut]

Well, both Baking Soda and Powder will raise pH, GH and KH, just one releases Phosphate, namely Baking Soda. Now, looking back at the post, I see there is a typo, it is baking poweder (Sodium Bicarbonate) I get for my marines in bulk... Anyhow, both will work for a Fishless cycle (You just don't want to add Baking Soda to a reef system, as it would caurse havoc with the Phosphate reading...)

 

[waterdrop]

Well, both Baking Soda and Powder will raise pH, GH and KH, just one releases Phosphate, namely Baking Soda. Now, looking back at the post, I see there is a typo, it is baking poweder (Sodium Bicarbonate) I get for my marines in bulk... Anyhow, both will work for a Fishless cycle (You just don't want to add Baking Soda to a reef system, as it would caurse havoc with the Phosphate reading...)

O now stop being so serious! I know all that. I was referring to way back... didn't you once or twice go into a thing about mixing the stuff up in the incoming water prior to it going in the aquarium? I was getting at the clumping thing... was thinking maybe there's a difference between different brands of baking soda as to how clumpy or not clumpy they are!

WD

 

[rabbut]

LOL, I'm a serious type of person LOL

Erm, not too shure TBH if brand does make a difference... The finer the better realy for getting stuff the disolve usualy... Your mileage may vary however

 

[Dave Spencer]

Well, both Baking Soda and Powder will raise pH, GH and KH, just one releases Phosphate, namely Baking Soda.

Sodium bicarbonate raisng KH is a popular misconception on this forum, and should really be nipped in the bud. Carbonate hardness is a measurement of calcium and magnesium ions as carbonates and bicarbonates, so adding sodium bicarbonate does not increase the KH.

Where do the phosphates in baking soda come from, Rabbut?

Dave.

 

[OldMan47]

Sodium bicarbonate contains sodium and bicarbonate. The carbonate will raise KH regardless of what you might think but will not move GH because it does not contain any calcium nor any magnesium. You just got the two backward Dave. There is also no phosphate in the bicarbonate. I have no idea the chemical composition of baking powder so will not try to say what it would do and I won't use something that I don't understand. Bicarbonate is an ion composed of hydrogen and carbonate (HCO3). It would be perfectly correct to read off the chemical composition of baking soda as sodium hydrogen carbonate but that is not the customary way to say it. The carbonate is virtually the definition of KH.

 

[Dave Spencer]

The carbonate will raise KH regardless of what you might think but will not move GH because it does not contain any calcium nor any magnesium.

From what I understand OM47, carbonate hardness is defined as that portion of all calcium ions (Ca++) and magnesium ions (Mg++) ions present in water for which there exists an equivalent amount of hydrogen carbonate ions (HCO3–) and carbonate ions (CO3-–).

Adding NaHCO3 does not add any carbs or bicarbs as as Ca or Mg, so it can`t be increasing the KH.

Baking soda is pure NaHCO3, whereas baking powder also contains tartaric acid CH4H6O6, so I am still a little mystified as to where the phosphate comes from.

Dave.

 

[rabbut]

KH is abbreviation for Carbonate Hardness, or a measure of the amount of carbonate salts disolved in the water
GH is abbreviation for General Hardness, or a measure of the amount of carbonate and magnesium salts in the water
If KH raises, GH must go up also, as GH contains a proportion of KH in there... This is why (contrary to what many dip strip tester kits would have you believe) you cannot have a GH that's lower than the KH

I can't realy see where the Phosphate comes from when adding Baking Powder to the tank. I can only assume that it's caursing some form of secondary reaction in the marine tank when added One things for sure, add it to a fresh barrel of Salt RO and up goes Phosphate, with no other source notable... This is why I now use pure Sodium Bicarbonate

Sorry, I confused myself as to which is which above, Baking Soda is safe as Dave says

All the best
Rabbut