Cycle Question "add And Wait"

[iceprizm]

Sorry if this was covered elsewhere, I did search the board but couldn't find the answer to my question.

This is my first fishless cycle a have a 55g tank, using Ace ammonia %10, and testing with API master FW kit.

7/5/08 I added 10ml of ammonia testing showed 5ppm. Today 7/11/08 I am at the point where all ammonia is processed in 12 hours. My nitrites are 5ppm or greater (dark purple color). My nitrates is around 10ppm looks like amber beer.

Here is where I am confused: the guide says to only add ammonia ever 24 hours. If this is the case the tank will have no ammonia in it 12 hours out of the day. Would the bacteria still survive. Although if you add ammonia every 12 hours how would you know when the nitrite level drops? Wouldn't you have an endless supply of nitirite being processed?

So how often do you add ammonia when it gets processed in 12 hours?

Getting there dont want to screw up now!

 

[Colin_T]

You can add ammonia once or twice a day, it doesn't really matter once the bacteria is breaking it down quickly. However, the more ammonia going in, the higher the nitrites will get and if they get too high then the filter cycle can sometimes stall. The same thing happens when too much ammonia is in the water. It actually inhibits the growth of the beneficial bacteria we are trying to culture. Just add it once a day and the bacteria should be fine.

I would recommend doing a 50% water change to dilute the nitrite level. You want to be able to get an actual reading. If the colour is off the chart it is going to cause some problems.

Don't bother testing for nitrates until the nitrites have gone up and come back down to 0. Nitrate test kits will read nitrite as nitrate giving you a false reading.

 

[iceprizm]

ok that makes sense. ill do a 50% water change and add ammonia once ever 24 hrs. thanks.

 

[iceprizm]

ok i did a 60% water change today (7/12/08). i then added 10ml of ammonia and tested again. the ammonia was right at 5ppm the nitrite was again at the dark purple color.

So i am totally confused. Unless a high level of ammonia can trick the nitrite test? I dont see how my nitrites can be at the same level after i did a water change. i tested my source and it was 0. so maybe my nitrites are really really high? so high it is still off the chart after a water change?

i am thinking of doing another water change tommorrow 80 or more then fill up then test for nitrites then add ammonia and then see what my results are.

anyone have any ideas?

 

[Colin_T]

as you guessed, you probably have a really really high nitrite level. Just do another big water change tomorrow and then test it.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah seems like you've so much nitrite that even when you do a big water change it's still off the chart.

Do a much bigger water change, you can do 100% as your cycling fishlessly, make sure you keep the filter media wet but do as big a change as is practical.

 

[iceprizm]

ok today 7/14/08 i did another water change. i took out all the water down to the substrate, i refilled and the nitrite level is still high 2+ppm. purple color. although now the indicator drops dont turn purple right away. it starts out light blue then over 5 mins turns purple. I wonder if my substrate has something to do with it. I am using a mix of flourite and eco-complete. i guess the only other thing i can do is wait for my bacteria to develop.

 

[OldMan47]

Keep an eye on it Iceprizm, enough people use those substrates that we would have probably heard by now if it was causing problems. In the meantime the huge water change as suggested by MW has put you in the position of being able to monitor the nitrites again. It also made sure that the levels were not so high they would damage the development of your nitrite converting bacteria.

 

[iceprizm]

guess i just have to be patient.

thought it was strange that i did a almost total water change and my nitrites are still high. I expected them to go away.

 

[Colin_T]

if it is reading 2ppm then it is fine. Most nitrite test kits go red and don't turn blue or purple/black.

 

[iceprizm]

update. i have been adding ammonia every 24 hrs. i am at the point where after 24 hrs my nitrites are almost totally processed.

My question is when is the tank considered cycled?

My guess is when you add ammonia 10-12 hrs later the ammonia is all processed, another 10-12 hrs later the nitrites are all processed.
so after 20-24 hrs all ammonia and all nitrites are processed.

Am I right about this? Is there any reason not to add fish immediately once you get to this point?

 

[toshapetriji]

Hi there, you are looking for both ammonia and nitrite to process over a 12 hour period. If this can be maintained for a week you can be pretty sure the cycle has completed.

Good luck.

 

[iceprizm]

do you mean that after 12 hours both ammonia and nitrite should be gone?

 

[toshapetriji]

That´s right.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, there is absolutely nothing wrong with your fishless cycle. You are having all the same worries that I did. You are in the 2nd phase, the one we also call the "Nitrite Spike" phase for obvious reasons.

You have reached the stage where nitrite goes to zero in 24 hours, which is good. Its just that you are now at the final part the drives everyones patience nuts! It can take a long time before nitrites (as well as the ammonia of course) are processed from their high level all the way down to zero in 12 hours. Just be extremely patient and persistent and you can be sure that one day that sky blue (if API) nitrite test will show up in 12 hours.

One of the main things that slows it down at this stage is that the N-bacs, the ones that eat the nitrites, don't like the very thing they eat! If the nitrite level is high then they grow more slowly. So large water changes with recharges of ammonia are the order of the day in this last phase. Besides, that gives you time to practice your gravel cleans and get your water change logistics going well before you have fish. Also, if you have Seachem Flourish or some other plant dosing liquid with iron, its a good time to be putting in the appropriate amount for your tank size as the N-Bacs also like having a little iron (along with their favorite pH of 8.0 to 8.4 and their favorite temperature of 30C/86F degrees.)

And before I forget: You are worrying too much about your A-Bacs not getting ammonia if you only recharge after 24 hours. By this time those guys can go days without much die-back if they don't have food. In fact, the thing of putting in 4-5ppm all through this stage was just something RDD did for simplicity of instructions. If you only put 2-3ppm during the beginning times of the nitrite spike, then you won't have so much build-up of nitrite (1ppm of ammonia gets converted to 2.7ppm of nitrite, so it multiplies!) and then when you start to get closer to the "12 hour mark" you can ease the ammonia add level back up to 4-5ppm to maximize the final power of your biofilter prior to fish introduction.

~~waterdrop~~