Cycle Problem Or Not?

kris2112

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i have 56 gallon tank with internal filter

added 2 mollies sunday morning

monday test (morning)
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0


monday afternoon added established tank gravel (absoloutly filthy) to filter media and hung a net infront of filter outflow

monday evening added 4 small danios and tested again

same results as morning


tuesday never tested

wednesday (morning)

ammonia 0
nitrite 0.25
nitrate between 1 and 2

any usefull comments please im still new so go easy on me thanks
feel free to ask any questions
 
tanks not cycled but the mature gravel obviously contains a good portion of the beneficial bacteria otherwise you'd be getting ammonia and not nitrite.

you're effectivley ina fish-in cycle but have probably jumped straight into phase 2 (the nitrite spike phase) because of the mature gravel being added.

your goal is to keep ammonia and nitrite as close to 0 as possible with 0.25ppm being the absolute max they should get too. To do this you carry out daily water changing and testing, start out with a 50% change once a day and see what your readings are like, you can then increase/reduce the %age change as appropriate.

if you're not up on cycling read the link in my sig 'whats cycling' :good:
 
thanks i thought thats what had happened i was just a bit curious as to why it was showing nitrate levels already
because i have read all about the cycle and was under the impression that the nitrite took around 2 weeks to turn into nitrate during the cycling period.

does the nitrate grow with the nitrite until it has reached the full amount required for the tank size and then start to break down the remaining nitrite.

or could it just be that there is nitrate bacteria on the established gravel already?


cheers for the comments.
 
i think you're a littlle confused about the cycling process, if you read the links in my sig 'The Nitrogen Cycle' and 'Whats Cycling' then these will help you understand it all a little better.

have a look at those then come back to me if you've any specific questions from there. :good:
 
i fully understand the nitrogen cycle i must just not be wording it very well. sorry

i understand that it takes longer for nitrite to form into nitrate than it does for ammonia to nitrite
and the point of me putting the gravel in was to introduce the beneficial bacteria needed to fight the ammonia
which would kick start the cycle.
which seems to have worked.

i was as i said before just curious as to y i am getting signs of nitrate already when the nitrite to nitrate
process to be completed takes a few weeks during the cycle.

once again sorry if im making things seem a little confusing
 
Hi kris2112 and welcome to the TFF beginners forum! :hi:

When you added the mature gravel muck to your new filter there were probably several things of interest that went in. There was organic debris (small bits of plant debris, fish waste etc. from whatever tank it came from), some ammonia, some nitrite, some nitrate and then the gravel with various microorganisms (fungi, single-celled animals, algae etc.) and yes, hopefully some of the 2 species of nitrifying bacteria that are beneficial, stuck all over the gravel in sticky films we call biofilms. The existing nitrates in the muck may have been some of the nitrate(NO3) you measured, along with some new nitrate recently produced by the nitrifying bacteria that came along stuck to the gravel.

To oversimplify, there are 3 substances and 2 little living animals in the "cycling" process you're trying to learn about. First comes the substance ammonia (comes directly off the fish gills when they respire and from their waste, comes also from "heterotrophic" bacteria (different from the ones we are trying to grow!) floating in the water which break down the solid fish waste and plant debris and any excess fish food (which is also organic.)) The ammonia is food for the "A-Bacs" (the ammonia oxidizing bacteria) and for each 1ppm of ammonia they produce 2.7ppm of nitrite(NO2), which is our substance number two and is food for the "N-Bacs" (nitrite oxidizing bacteria, our little living animals number two) which eat it and produce nitrate(NO3) (our substance number three, about 3.6ppm of it) and this nitrate hangs around in our tank either until we take it out with a weekly water change or it gets "de-nitrified" by still different bacteria that may sometimes be present in small amounts (not enough to be significant, thus the eventual water changes in most of our cases.)

Ammonia and nitrite(NO2) are deadly poisons to fish. Now you might ask.. why would mother nature be putting out a deadly poison right at the fish gills (?) and the answer would be, well.. the fish evolved swimming in millions of gallons of fresh surrounding water (!) always flushing away that ammonia! In our little aquariums, the poisons build up quickly. Even small amounts of ammonia cause permanent gill damage and potential death. Even small amounts of nitrite(NO2) cause suffocation, permanent nerve damage and potential death. So a fast way to rid the tank of these toxins was essential. Turns out "mother nature" provided that too (!) in the form of nitrifying bacteria (plants can do it too, but that is not part of our simple discussion here) and ever since the early days of aquariums the answer has come to us in for form of the "miraculous" machine called a "biofilter."

The "biofilter" is just any "system" that allow our two species of nitrifying bacteria, the A-Bacs and N-Bacs discussed above, to stick on "media" (gravel, sponges, ceramic rings, ceramic pebbles, bioballs, lots of things!), grow their biofilm nests and be provided with a constant flow of fresh ammonia and oxygen and water.. that's it! Filters are simple, even crude looking things, but don't be fooled, they are amazing machines and are the heart of the modern aquarium hobby.

It takes about a month or two to grow sufficiently large populations of A-Bacs and N-Bacs for the filter to be ready to be operational and support a fish population. Prior to that their won't be enough bacteria to eat all the toxins and the toxins will show up on our tests (the little "snapshots" we take of water chemistry in our little test tube kits.) The filter hardware and test kits are just raw materials and must be used with the type of knowledge gained here in our forum!

OK, hope that gets you jumpstarted in your learning there!
~~waterdrop~~ :)
(ps. just had to write something because my wife made me do errands just when I was going to post to you earlier and I thought, o darn, now MW will beat me to the case :lol: :lol: )
 
(ps. just had to write something because my wife made me do errands just when I was going to post to you earlier and I thought, o darn, now MW will beat me to the case :lol: :lol: )


and too right too, can't be neglecting your husbandly/fatherly duties for the sake of TFF now!
 
(ps. just had to write something because my wife made me do errands just when I was going to post to you earlier and I thought, o darn, now MW will beat me to the case :lol: :lol: )


and too right too, can't be neglecting your husbandly/fatherly duties for the sake of TFF now!
:lol: :lol: ..now don't be going and getting to "nesty".. you've gotta give Ian some fun years first there...
 
fun years?! He's got 4/5 years of college/uni looming ahead of him, obviously not practical to have kids with him in Uni but I've told him I wanna start trying at his graduation ceremony!! :lol: :blush: :rolleyes:

There's no fun going on in the wiggle household and don't let anyone tell you otherwise ;)
 
:lol: 'cours on the other hand I want to still be alive and be a "goduncle" or something when that kid of yours is accepted as a student of Tom Barr because he/she had "massive backgound in the home" with salt influence from one side and fresh from the other... :lol: :lol: :p
 
:lol:

you should have heard Ian the other day, he reckons when he's at Uni doing engineering he'll be able to design all this fishtank equipment and we're gonna have a totally DIY but over engineered fishtank to tinker with while he's at Uni. Something v high tech probably next to his desk. :D
 

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