Cyanobacteria Questions & White Spores

[mark4785]

In the last 48 hours I've noticed that blue green algae/bacteria has been forming on the plant leaves and bog wood in the aquarium. I've removed most of it but it still keeps growing really quickly and it is quite stringy. If it's stringy, does that mean it is still blue green algae? I was under the impression it had a appearance similar to green dust algae.

I've read that trapped toxins exiting from the substrate can cause blue green algae to form. This would make sense as during water changes I've disturbed the substrate and i've done many gravel-vacs recently which needed to be conducted for resolving another issue in the aquarium.

My question is, if I have blue-green algae, would my planted aquarium benefit from a powerhead installed near the substrate to increase the oxygen content? High oxygen seems to be the key to breaking down trapped substances in the substrate which I feel there may be a lack of at the moment.

Here are pictures of what I think is blue-green algae:

edit: I've started dosing more nitrate fert as this is a lack of nitrate seems to cause this form of algae. I hope I've diagnosed the right form of algae though!

 

[coldcazzie]

I think you're right it is BGA. As to how to get rid of it, I have no idea - I'm still fighting with the stuff in my tank. So far, it's winning

 

[the biffster]

how long is the lights on
for

 

[mark4785]

how long is the lights on
for

The lights are on 8 hours per day. They are T5 2 x Phillips 28w strip bulbs.

By the way, are such bulbs good enough for planted aquariums? A guy at my LFS recommended some bulbs which were T5 but were packaged in a box which promoted their use in a planted aquarium; he said that they released more suitable light "vitamins" which would be more beneficial for my plants. I didn't believe into his explanation really.

One thing I think I should point out is that there seems to be thousands of semi-visible white strands of what looks like hair (smaller than the tip of a pen) floating in the water column. Does anybody know what this might be? I personally think it's an algae spore; hopefully not the start of pea soup algae.

 

[mark4785]

What are the options for wiping out blue-green algae?

I'm a bit anxious about trying the technique whereby you are required to block light sources from getting into the aquarium by covering the entire aquarium with a bin liner for 72 hours. Is this a good method, surely the fish won't be very happy, nor will the plants?

 

[SuperColey1]

If it is BGA then your diagnoses' are in the main correct:
Dirty substrate/Filter+low nitrates

BGA is a bacteria not an algae so we aren't following rules of light and CO2 as probable main causes here.

Your substrate cleaning was a good thing, thoroughly cleaning the filter would be advisable.

Nitrates or Nitrogen should have been high according to your recent ammonia tests. Have you stopped the TPN+?

Oxygen/anaerobic substrate is a myth in planted aquaria. Plant roots are like tubes full of oxygen hence the substrate gets all the necessary oxygen. Shouldn't be a worry at all with gravel. I need say no more there

On the lights, yours are fine. You are right the shop keeper is reading the marketing dept's blurb on the packaging.

On the white strands it could be something like planaria which have been flushed out while you dealt with problems in the tank. the only other thing I can think of is Hydra which would tie in with the substrate/water problems you had/have. If it is Hydra then you don't want these. They sting and can kill shrimp.

http/www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php/34333-Bugs-you-might-encounter-in-your-aquarium

Onto the blackout. Have you heard of blackwater fish? Or blackwater rivers? Fish live in these. Ph can be as low as 3.5 and visibility be as low as zero but Cichlids and Characins are abundant. this is why the ph recommendations given on profiles should be taken with a pinch of salt.

If you do a 5 day blackout with no peeking you will open the tank up to find the fish alive, the plants alive and hopefully algae/BGA problems visibly dimished/gone. When I go on hols My fish get fed once a week. That is fine for them. Without light the nutrient demand is much lower for the plants. They may grow slighly leggier but it won't hurt them.

The blackout doesn't always work from reading up on it but then some people may expect a parkling clean algae tank where I would be viewing a visible reduction as success. This may account for the 'it didn't work' statements. lol

Rio Negro

AC

 

[mark4785]

If it is BGA then your diagnoses' are in the main correct:
Dirty substrate/Filter+low nitrates

BGA is a bacteria not an algae so we aren't following rules of light and CO2 as probable main causes here.

Your substrate cleaning was a good thing, thoroughly cleaning the filter would be advisable.

Nitrates or Nitrogen should have been high according to your recent ammonia tests. Have you stopped the TPN+?

Oxygen/anaerobic substrate is a myth in planted aquaria. Plant roots are like tubes full of oxygen hence the substrate gets all the necessary oxygen. Shouldn't be a worry at all with gravel. I need say no more there

On the lights, yours are fine. You are right the shop keeper is reading the marketing dept's blurb on the packaging.

On the white strands it could be something like planaria which have been flushed out while you dealt with problems in the tank. the only other thing I can think of is Hydra which would tie in with the substrate/water problems you had/have. If it is Hydra then you don't want these. They sting and can kill shrimp.

http/www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php/34333-Bugs-you-might-encounter-in-your-aquarium

Onto the blackout. Have you heard of blackwater fish? Or blackwater rivers? Fish live in these. Ph can be as low as 3.5 and visibility be as low as zero but Cichlids and Characins are abundant. this is why the ph recommendations given on profiles should be taken with a pinch of salt.

If you do a 5 day blackout with no peeking you will open the tank up to find the fish alive, the plants alive and hopefully algae/BGA problems visibly dimished/gone. When I go on hols My fish get fed once a week. That is fine for them. Without light the nutrient demand is much lower for the plants. They may grow slighly leggier but it won't hurt them.

The blackout doesn't always work from reading up on it but then some people may expect a parkling clean algae tank where I would be viewing a visible reduction as success. This may account for the 'it didn't work' statements. lol

Rio Negro

AC

I've taken some pictures of the white strands, there are hundreds of thousands of them floating around. They've never been in the tank (possibly at a noticeable level) until the last 48 hours. Prior to seeing them I did a gravel vac and scraped tonnes of green/brown algae from the glass using a scraper which is an extra component to the gravel vac.

Here are some pictures of the white strands:

Extent of BGA formation on bog wood over just three days:

If I was to do a 4-5 day blackout would it be a good idea to do a large water change at the end of it just incase the plants have released sugars into the water which would in turn make the algae grow back? I've read they release sugars when they start to degrade; will 5 days of a complete lack of photosynthesis cause the START of decomposition?

 

[mark4785]

I think I'm going to start the aquarium black out today but I have some questions that I wouldn't mind an answer to before I feel comfortable starting.

Another question relates to feeding during the blackout. Why are you adviced not to feed your fish for the entire period of the blackout? Wouldn't that destroy quite a bit of the filter bacteria?

Most of the questions are in my previous reply.

Thanks.

 

[coldcazzie]

Yes, water change before you start blackout, and then again afterwards.

If you are blacking out all of the light for 5 days, and then you lift the lid to feed the fish what will you let in? Light? No point covering the tank with bin bags to block out all the light, and then lifting up the lid and letting light in that way.

Not feeding the fish for 5 days will have no effect on filter bacteria.

 

[mark4785]

Well I didn't think ordinary light from a ceiling bulb would have much of an effect and I'd be opening the lid at 5pm when the sun isn't up (in the UK).

Would that be ok?

 

[myrtle]

Absolutely no peeking

 

[SuperColey1]

I would assume the following:

The blackout 3,4,5 days is to block out the light as Cyanobacteria are a photosynthesising bacteria.

The no feeding part is more than likely a seperate issue in that we are trying to eliminate the 'dirty tank' problem. Namely no feeding means no excess food and also less fish waste. The fish are fine. Like I said when I go on hols the fish will be fed by my Dad once a week for a fortnight. That means fed twice in 14-17 days. Not a problem. They'll probs love you intensly when you take the covers off and do fed them. lol

The water change preceeding the blackout is to remove as much of the cyano from the substrate as you can. If using a tootbrush to remove stubboen bits then have the syphon close to quickly scoop up the remnants as they become loose. Always have your filter turned off when doing this kind of thing so that there is no flow and therefore what you remove doesn't then get moved away from where you are syphoning/cleaning.

The last point is whether using a blackout or chemical you are killing off the result and not the cause. You may have a cyano free tank or at least less of a problem once the course is complete but if the conditions that caused it in the first place are not corrected then it will come back.

I seem to remember you have an internal filter so I would be cleaning this weekly and thoroughly at that. Then I would be scooping up the waste of the substrate weekly too. You may need to do proper gravel vaccing until the plants roots spread really well at which point they should remove the need to remove what is in the substrate.

Thirdly you need to address the nitrate issue. If you no longer wish to use TPN+ then maybe consider mixing your own from dry ferts. I am currently dosing in the region of 2x EI levels and that will be probably 10-20x or more the levels that TPN+ dosing would provide, however it will use nitrate rather than ammonium nitrate so may ease your mind a little.

After that it is just a case of maintaining your routine. Some like me seem to get away with doing little where others need to rigidly keep to thorough substrate cleaning etc. As stated previously there is no one system fits all here but there are good starting points which th user can then test to see how far they can pushtheir own setup.

This link is pretty detailed r.e. Cyano. Please don't be tempted by chemical means of elimination which are detailed at the end. These methods often incur some bad results in other areas. Killing off filter bacteria, causing ammonia spikes etc:

http/www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/cyano.shtml

AC

 

[mark4785]

I would assume the following:

The blackout 3,4,5 days is to block out the light as Cyanobacteria are a photosynthesising bacteria.

The no feeding part is more than likely a seperate issue in that we are trying to eliminate the 'dirty tank' problem. Namely no feeding means no excess food and also less fish waste. The fish are fine. Like I said when I go on hols the fish will be fed by my Dad once a week for a fortnight. That means fed twice in 14-17 days. Not a problem. They'll probs love you intensly when you take the covers off and do fed them. lol

The water change preceeding the blackout is to remove as much of the cyano from the substrate as you can. If using a tootbrush to remove stubboen bits then have the syphon close to quickly scoop up the remnants as they become loose. Always have your filter turned off when doing this kind of thing so that there is no flow and therefore what you remove doesn't then get moved away from where you are syphoning/cleaning.

The last point is whether using a blackout or chemical you are killing off the result and not the cause. You may have a cyano free tank or at least less of a problem once the course is complete but if the conditions that caused it in the first place are not corrected then it will come back.

I seem to remember you have an internal filter so I would be cleaning this weekly and thoroughly at that. Then I would be scooping up the waste of the substrate weekly too. You may need to do proper gravel vaccing until the plants roots spread really well at which point they should remove the need to remove what is in the substrate.

Thirdly you need to address the nitrate issue. If you no longer wish to use TPN+ then maybe consider mixing your own from dry ferts. I am currently dosing in the region of 2x EI levels and that will be probably 10-20x or more the levels that TPN+ dosing would provide, however it will use nitrate rather than ammonium nitrate so may ease your mind a little.

After that it is just a case of maintaining your routine. Some like me seem to get away with doing little where others need to rigidly keep to thorough substrate cleaning etc. As stated previously there is no one system fits all here but there are good starting points which th user can then test to see how far they can pushtheir own setup.

This link is pretty detailed r.e. Cyano. Please don't be tempted by chemical means of elimination which are detailed at the end. These methods often incur some bad results in other areas. Killing off filter bacteria, causing ammonia spikes etc:

http/www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/cyano.shtml

AC

Thanks for the reply,

I'm using Easylife Nitro as my main nitrogen nutrient. I've only ever raised my nitrate level to 20ppm and it is most often between 10-20 ppm.

Here is what I do in terms of maintenance; maybe my maintenance routine is the cause of the algae outbreaks so I'd appreciate some feedback:

- I do a thorough gravel vac every 2-4 days lasting at least 30 minutes.

- I check the plants every 2-3 days looking for dead/decaying leaves and remove anything that looks odd.

- I check my nitrate, iron and phosphate levels every 1-2 days and aim for the following levels: Nitrate 10-20 ppm, iron 0.1 to 0.2 mg/l and phosphate 0.50 - 1.5 ppm. I use the following c02 system: http/www.wharfaquatics.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=WAQ3602 and I always aim to make the drop-checker liquid solution turn green (I don't know the relevance of KH and PH on c02 and I've never understood how to determine the concentration level of c02 in the water). The TPN+ I used raised my phosphate to 5-10 ppm and also made the ammonium level go up and straight after I noticed a new form of algae forming come to think of it which is of course BGA.

- I check the filter's outlet pipe every day to check the water agitation and use that to judge the level of detritus in the filter system. I only clean the biological filter sponges every 4-5 weeks (they are never excessively dirty after this period) and I leave the other compartments in the Cayman 05 filter which seem to contain ceramic rings (they are sealed in a box and I've been adviced that they never really need to be cleaned).

- I feed the fish 2-3 times a day with Ocean Nutrition flakes (only what they can eat in 2 minutes and I ensure none of it sinks to the substrate as they are no sufficient bottom-feeders) and 4-8 blood worms every 5-7 days.

Is there anything that you see above in my regime that would be causing algae?

edit: By the way, thank you for the link (URL). That's probably the most informative BGA article I've ever read. Based on what I've read I'll see if limiting potassium and phosphate and increasing oxygen content by use of a powerhead helps to slow BGA growth. Certainly, the increase in phosphate induced BGA so maybe depleting phosphate and others will kill it off.

 

[SuperColey1]

I'll read through the post properly later but I sount it was the TPN+ raising the phosphate to 5-10ppm!!! If dosing as per what you said then you aren't putting anything near that amount into the tank!!!

TPN+ is already pretty low in N and P compared to dry fert regimes.

AC

 

[coldcazzie]

This link is pretty detailed r.e. Cyano. Please don't be tempted by chemical means of elimination which are detailed at the end. These methods often incur some bad results in other areas. Killing off filter bacteria, causing ammonia spikes etc:

http/www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/cyano.shtml

AC

Wanted to echo Mark and say thanks for that link - it was very informative
Today I've done a medium tank clean - 75% water change and gravel vac, removed the bogwood and removed all the snapped/decaying vallis leaves and cleaned both filters, then dosed ferts. Going to up to twice weekly cleaning and weekly filter cleaning fo a few weeks see if that helps any. So tempted to break tank down when I move in 3 weeks and completely start afresh, except I'd have to lose all my plants not really willing to do that.