Correct Water Stats And Proper Testing Kit

[Miss Wiggle]

the lfs have made a common mis conception there. the bacteria do not live free swimming in our water, they cling onto surfaces and live primarily in the filter. changing out the water won't do anything to the bacteria, all it will do is reduce the nitrite and ammonia

if water changes aren't working then it stands to reason that something is producing some excess nitrite. have you cleaned out the gravel and tidied out any dead leaves etc?

also drop down feeding to every other day to slow the waste production.

we have a bit of a gripe over bacteria in a bottle products, unfortunately they're not very good. the idea of them is great and if they worked they'd revolutionise fishkeeping. However at best results are variable, unfortunately easy balance isn't one of the ones that's recommended. There's two main problems with these products, firstly half of them contain the wrong species of bacteria in the first place which isn't v helpful! Secondly bacteria will not stay alive indefinately on the shelf in the lfs with no food source and in a range of conditions. So even the ones that did contain the right species in the first place they'll often die off in the bottle and there's nothing left by the time you put it in the tank.

There's two exceptions to this rule in the USA there's Bio Spira, in the UK there's Bactinettes. Both of these products will come refridgerated and with a shelf life, this sustains the bacteria's life for a bit longer.

So if you can get some Bactinettes from any of your local fish shops then try some of this, any other bacteria in a bottle products just dump the whole lot in on the chance that there's some bacteria still alive, but don't hang all your hopes on it.

you can do 50% water changes, leave it 1 hr and then do another 50% change so keep doing that until the levels are where you want and then start dosing with the protozoin

 

[Angie_B]

Thanks for your help and speedy reply.

I did another 50% water change and removed all the plants bar for one. I think my nitrit problem, may be one of the plants had black rotten roots under the sand. as when I hoovered up the sand, the water coming through the syphon, ponged a bit. I moved the sand around a lot in the whole tank and removed all the plant debris, bar for some bits, which I will get tomorrow.

I have added a rather awful new plastic plant, but I guess that will be better than no plants, especially if the Platty gives birth which I am hoping she will keep her fins crossed and hold on a bit. They have a few other things to hide in as I have a large log type ornament with holes in it.

I did another water stats, the nitrit level is now very very pale pink, prob 0.1. so I added the Protozin. Am a bit gutted it will kill the snails though ( I tried to rescue a few to put in the secondary tank I am setting up.

The male platty doesn't seem especially happy at the mo, his fins are clamped, so will have to keep an eye on him.

Once again, thank you so much for your help, it is really appreciated. It's a worry trying to get it right and not to distress your fish, poor little things.

 

[waterdrop]

yes, excellent write-up from MW, I agree with all she says up there

Over time, as a member here, you will end up reading lots of discussions about the whole LFS topic (you can search and find plenty when bored some day) and you will see a range of feelings from the members, commonly with plenty of frustration. My own attitude has settled down to a feeling of confidence that the experienced members here constitute lots more of the skill and knowledge a hobbyist wants. I always assume none of this will be there in the LFS but I stay open to being surprised. Generally I go in a look quietly and politely and I don't seek advice at all. Sometimes I will listen to things they say with internal amusement and try to file them away to help me understand why beginners come here with such misunderstandings. I intend to keep on enjoying trips to the LFS and I will always enjoy finding some new and better one when on a trip. I enjoy knowing where I might find items I need among the local LFS choices. Its handy to be able to get things quickly. There was a recent thread about how you can print out super-low price quotes from online aquarium suppliers and PetSmart will match the price if you can find the same item there. I still believe many multi-year LFS owners and long-time workers can have loads of interesting experience, I'm just very careful how I engage with them and generally avoid seeking advice if possible, so it won't get too controversial - I like to try and maintain a good relationship for those times when they will be netting a fish for me!

Just my 2 cents,
~~waterdrop~~

 

[Angie_B]

I am confused, clearly something must be wrong ..

I did a 50% water change yesterday and another 30% today and then re added the Protozin treatment for Velvet (yesterday removed all but one plant) there is no debris on the floor of the tank, this is hoovered up each day in the water changes.

But my nitrit reading is still 0.3
Amonia is zero
My ph is always coming out at 7.5
but my nitrate has now gone up to 5-10

Is there anything else that could be causing this?

My tank has now been running for 4-5 weeks.

Just as a reminder I have 3 Danios, 2 Platties. The tank I think is about 130L (although the shop said 100L from a guess).

 

[waterdrop]

Well Angie, unless I'm missing something then this is very good news for the big picture (even if it makes it harder in the here and now!) It sounds like you are clearly getting the famous "nitrite spike" that accompanies the second phase of the normal course of cycling.

When the A-Bacs process ammonia, the multiply the nitrite output. For each 1ppm of ammonia, they create 2.7ppm of nitrite. So when the A-Bac population finally hits the really vertical part of its exponential growth graph, it easily begins to produce way more nitrite than the slower-growing N-Bac population can handle. So during the second phase while you are waiting more for the N-Bacs to grow, you become much more aware of trying to keep nitrite down to zero, where before you were always worrying a lot about ammonia.

Of course in the short term it just increases the awful hassle of Fish-In cycling, where you constantly labor being a daily manual poison filter for these fish that you've bought too soon! (of course if if makes you feel any better, you'd have to start doing some water changes now too even if you were doing a fishless cycle, ha!)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Angie_B]

Thanks for the info Waterdrop. Yes, I learnt a valued lesson, never to trust anyone trying to sell you stuff, unfortunately three of my Danios learnt a much harder lesson

The fish seem lively and ok and the new treatment seems (might be in my head) to have improved the Danios.

I also now have a new tank with my rescued plants and some rescued snails [new treatment apparently kills them ]... which will hopefully act as a quarantine tank when cycled.

Am happy to keep on top of the water changes, I'm starting to get quite toned up arms from all the bucket loads also have just spent a small fortune on a Python system found on Ebay .... not the cheapest of hobbies this one.

Just one more question, since adding some Tetra Aqua Easy Balance to my tank yesterday, there is like a clouding or white stuff on the sides of my tank .. kind of looks almost like white algae?? any ideas. It's only a couple of millimetres long and the fish I think have been nibbling on it .. well the female platty has ... is this something to worry about?

Thanks again for all the great advice.

 

[waterdrop]

Good, one of the most important things is that the fish seem lively, that's a good sign I think.

No idea what the white stuff is. Perhaps it's just biofilm and algae that have somehow been dusted by the med you just put in. Also very common is really tiny white wormlike things called Planeria, which you can see as individual little things if you look really closely. Tanks get all kinds of strange stuff in these early stages, especially as cycling progresses and the balances have some pretty significant changes. The gravel cleaning action of your new Python will be one of the biggest helps to keeping all these in reasonable control and when the water chems settle down later the strange things will die down.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

nothing to add just to say listen to WD, agree with all his advice and comments in the last 2 posts.

keep up the good work, got my fingers and toes crossed for you.

 

[Angie_B]

Tonight I gave my tank a good clean, all through the sand and did a big water change (Danios seem a bit better, although still don't think they look right, their gills look like a burgandy colour and when i turn the light on they go a dark colour in their bodies .. but that might be because I havent had the light on for a while now ... but after popping to do my shopping, my platty's tummy seems to have got quite noticably bigger.

I do think she might be pregnant, as I have a male in the tank apparently and he got a bit frisky when I first got them.

Is this a pregnancy boom .. do they get bigger like this all of a sudden, or has something got distrubed in the water when i did the clean and upset her

I didn't put another top up of the Velvet treatment in the water, as thought I needed to give it a break, now I am wondering if I need to an anti internal bacterial treatment??

The pics aren't brilliant, but can you take a look and let me know if I need to worry? I am so attached to them all.

Thank you so much.

 

[trudie1964]

Hi Angie hope your fish are ok, I am so new to this hobby that i haven't even put the water in my tank yet! but i would like to say thank you, becuase of your posts it helps new comers like me realise how important it is to get help and advice before we start. Waterdrop and Miss Wiggle to name a few are brilliant (keep up the good work).

I do hope your remaining fish survive and hopefully you will be telling us how many babies you've had soon.

 

[lana]

Thanks for the info Waterdrop. Yes, I learnt a valued lesson, never to trust anyone trying to sell you stuff, unfortunately three of my Danios learnt a much harder lesson

The fish seem lively and ok and the new treatment seems (might be in my head) to have improved the Danios.

I also now have a new tank with my rescued plants and some rescued snails [new treatment apparently kills them ]... which will hopefully act as a quarantine tank when cycled.

Am happy to keep on top of the water changes, I'm starting to get quite toned up arms from all the bucket loads also have just spent a small fortune on a Python system found on Ebay .... not the cheapest of hobbies this one.

Just one more question, since adding some Tetra Aqua Easy Balance to my tank yesterday, there is like a clouding or white stuff on the sides of my tank .. kind of looks almost like white algae?? any ideas. It's only a couple of millimetres long and the fish I think have been nibbling on it .. well the female platty has ... is this something to worry about?

Thanks again for all the great advice.

you right there Angie i have at least $1000 wrapped up in my tank now.............. but it will pay off once cycled and the hard work is over


keep up that watch changes and treatment.... thank goodness i have not had to deal with any of that one (YET)

i am thinking i may be at the end of my cycle all reading 0 today with nitrate at between 10 and 20


you will get there

 

[waterdrop]

Enjoyed your pictures. Was going to have a look at our danios to see if normal gills make one think of burgundy very much, but Oliver's sleeping late (even with the aquarium lights having switched on!) Even though burgundy is of course the natural color of gills when you look in on them, it usually isn't what you see from the outside if the fish has opaque skin layers.

Even though we as humans think of all the debris disturbance during a water change as awful, I somehow have come to think its probably different to a fish and not really a bother nearly as much as we think. I don't think the water change will have had a bad effect on your mother platy.

As far as diagnoses, of either danios or mother platy, for me at least, this falls into that "too distant to make a diagnosis" category and I'd say you are as on top of it as I would be. I'd continue to observe and post information and maybe some other observation that turns up will help some member to return new advice to you. Things don't sound too bad but one never knows. Its entirely possible the platy has fry in her sac that have hit a faster enlarging stage, although I think even the livebearer folks could use closer and diff angle pics to say better what's going on with her.

Keeping up with frequent cleaning/changes is a "brill" (as MW would say) thing to be doing at this stage.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Angie_B]

First of all Waterdrop, thank you so much for your continued support, it is really much appreciated.

Each day I have been doing water changes and removing the debris on the bottom of the tank, seems to be quite a lot of fluffy type stuff as opposed to actual poo, although my female seems to be munching for England around the tank!

Unfortunately one of my Danios isn't responding to the treatment for Velvet and he still has some traces on his rear fin, but I took the treatment out for now and put in some Melafix.

After doing another big water change tonight, my water stats are

PH 7.50
Amonia 0
Nitrit, 0.1 very slight pink tinge
Nitrate in the band 5, but paler than the minimum band.

However, my male Platty has had his fin clamped for the last day or so, seems to be hovering around the famale a lot. He has had a slight patch of fungus (white fluff on his tail) which he has had for a little while now, but has been getting smaller and smaller (not that it was big to begin with). But tonight I have noticed him flashing quite a bit

I want to nip what ever it might be in the bud, as I am so fond of them all and I know it's stupid but they come over and greet me when I get in from work etc (and yeah I know it's because I am the food source )...

The famel Platty seems fine, fins displayed active and eating ... and eating .. and eating (but at least helps with tank maintenance The other two Danios seem fine. Even the one I think may still have Velvet is active and hungry etc.


I don't know what to do .. is there something I can add as a precaution???

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Angie, Well the only thing I can think of might be to write up a review post going over which fish had what symptoms for how many days and the treatments given so far and where you are with them now. You could sit it around in notepad and edit it and think about it a bit and then post it in the "Emergency" section maybe for Wilder and the others over there to see. They might review it and see another med that might be tried.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yes i agree, there's no point medicating without a diagnosis, you could be doing more harm than good, i would definately suggest you write a bit of a recap at this point, what's treatments added, full list of symptoms and stuff like that, post it up here and in the emergencies forum and we'll see if we can get to a diagnosis.