Clearly I've Gone So Wrong Somewhere...

[BlueDragon]

Flame is still in the net, although I have to say that I'm sure she's a little bit better. But by how much I can't tell, so that can't be brillient.

And this morning Sunny is sitting on the gravel again.

I feel totally stuck and I really don't know what to do now. So I've desided that the best thing might be to empty the tank of most of the water, clean the gravel, rinse the plants and start from scratch. Filling the tank with all new water, treating it, putting a new new filter cartridge in and trying again.
I'm sure that's wrong as well but what else can I do? No medcines are working any more, clearly there's something in the water that I can't get rid of just doing water changes, even half a tanks worth seems to do little in the long run. I can't imagine that it could be something as simple as the bog wood I have or the plants?

So this is what I have set up right now:

* A plain old all glass tank with a metal hood, messuring 24 inches by 12 and 15 inches high. Not hugh I know.
* Gravel, about two inches-ish of it. Natural, not coloured or plastic coated.
* A not very large peice of bog wood.
* All live plants, not too many but not too little either. They fill one back corner, half the back 'wall' and there's a few little ones dotted
around nearer the front and by the wood.
* I have a 50 to two hundred litre filter that runs on half way between the two. It has a one of those tube thingies where the water gets pumped back out so that the water in the tank is always moving and the whole tank gets filled with tiny bubbles.
* I have a an aquaglow bulb thats on a timer and is on for eight hours a day from seven in the morning to four in the afternoon.

The water gets treated with Safe Guard once a week and whenever I do a water change. Safe Water I was adding every day till I started the treatment again, and the plants get fed aquarium fertilizer once in two weeks.

And thats the tank I think.

My Fish get fed Tropical Fish flakes as a staple, with bloodworms three times a week and fresh veggies two or three times a week. They're all pooping much better than they were when I brought them home so I must be doing something right there? They also eat some of the snail eggs from the snails that came with the live plants. I'm assuming thats good protene and not bad for them? They also like to eat their plants, especialy the Platies.

Their temptrature is at seventy-two to seventy-three and stays that way all day, droppping at night to about seventy once the heating goes off.

The water tests are always the same and never seem to change no matter what I do, apart from the amonia levels which if they're higher than zero and I do a water change it goes back down to zero. Now I'm thinking that's not right and maybe I'm not getting the right readings?

And that's it I think. So is there anything there that wrong or doesn't seem right? Anything I should try to change first before starting again with the water in the tank?

I need to do something today I think or I'm scared I'm going to loose either Sunny of Flame. Maybe all of them. So if anyone has any ideas I'd really apreciate them : )

 

[bae1994]

Don't replace the filter cartridge as that will make your tank no longer cycled and that will cause more harm than good


Lots of small water changes are better than one big one normally so instead of a 100% water change today you would be better off doing 10% for the next ten days

Sorry cant help much but what are sytoms of the fish?

 

[BlueDragon]

I've put up a different post about Flame and her symptoms. And Sunny was acting more or less the same. I've tryed to explain how she's acting in the other post but I'm not sure I've done a good enough job.

My tank is no longer cycled anyway, and I'm not sure it ever was. The treatments I've been using have killed off any bacteria I had in there so I'm back to square one now anyway. I want to replace the filter cartridge 'cause I'm scared it'll be houseing something in there, like Columnaris or whatever this is, and that by putting it back in the tank I'm just starting the problem all over again. I don't have a filter cartridge in at the minuet though 'cause I'm still treating with the Myxazin.
Would it be safe to use the new one still? I would feel better using a brand new one, just in case. Is that being too carful?

I was changing the water in little bits every day until I started the treatment again for Flame. And I was changing the water every day before that too. I was doing it to try and keep the water right while the tank re-cycled. I don't understand percents, but I was changing six jugs of water a day, each having two litres in one jug full. It didn't seem to make a difference and I lost two Fish and nearly lost Sunny. I've even tryed big water changes and still it makes no difference. Flame has still gotten poorly.

Normally I know that small water changes are better than big ones, but it's just not working. They stress when I take them out for a big water change and I know this is bad. But surely temporary stress for better water/tank conditions is better than the alternitive?

 

[Prime Ordeal]

If you're getting ammonia levels of anything above zero at any time then your filter is not cycled yet (or has become uncycled for some reason). So you're in a fish in cycle and that means lots of water changes, which it seems you have been doing, but also you should give the tank, and particularly the substrate, a good clean. Don't use a new filter pad, just rinse the one you have.

You should move the fish to a bucket with the heater and filter so that you can have a good bash at the whole tank cleaning.

 

[bae1994]

If your tanks no longer cycled then I'd go to your local fish shop and ask for some media out of there system so it's mature and put that in your filter as it will be cycled so will help

The fish sytoms sound like shock from ammonia did your ammonia spike at all before you started treating the myxazin ?

 

[BlueDragon]

Yeah, that was my idea. They'll probably have to be in said bucket for a couple of hours, but it means I can have a good go at getting everything as-clean-as. And also I thought it would help to slowly get them used to this new water too by adding it a little at a time to the bucket. It would be a slow thing I think but at least I can rule out a dirty tank : /

And I hate the thought that I have an un-clean tank. I really don't know how I can, but right now it could be anything.

So is this probably caused by an un-cycled filter/tank? Nothing else like an in-water infection?

This is why I tryed to do a Fishless cycle, I really didn't want to attempt a Fish-in one : /


I think I'll do that. I'll empty the tank, clean everything and try to start again assuming that these problems are caused by an un-cycled filter and see where that gets me. I just need to learn how to best go about doing a Fish-in cycle 'cause I didn't learn much about it after I read all the horror stories about how it can go wrong and decided to do a Fishless one : (

 

[BlueDragon]

Sorry bae, I missed your post there.

No I've never got an amonia spike. If I had I'd think it was that, but the reading were showing at only as high as one square above zero at the most. And then I'd do a water change and get it back down to zero. Would that be classed as a spike? Nothing else has risen or dropped.

I'm not sure what media is, can I have an example? It's not water or used gravel?

 

[Prime Ordeal]

The fish in cycle is relatively easy, it's just hard work!

Keep the readings of ammonia and nitrite at all times at, or preferably below, 0.25ppm by doing appropriate water changes using a dechlorinator that detoxifies ammonia. That's it.

As far as the ammonia goes, even though you think you have a clean tank, it has to come from somewhere and that is fish faeces, rotting food, plants etc. So a thorough clean and removal of any dead plant material should help greatly.

And, of course, if your filter isn't cycled then the cleanest tank in the world isn't going to help because the normal output from the fish themselves will cause a constant increase in ammonia. That's where the water changes come in.

Substrate is gravel/sand and media is anything in your filter, like sponge, wool, ceramic beads etc.

 

[BlueDragon]

OK, got it... I think.

My filter cartridge mine uses is a sponge type thing. The petshop doesn't use the same filter as I have (they have the big things), but maybe they can still give me something else? I can go up tomorrow and ask 'cause I was going to go up anyway.

The Safe Guard I use gets rid of amonia, I think it neutralizes it. But either way it makes it harmless, or so it says. The Safe Water is a bacteria treater that I was told is very similar to filter starter (I got it to try and boost the filter and bacteria again). It has four types of bacteria plus Bacillus. Not sure how you spell it, but I'm sure you get what I mean.

If I was to do all this and then do water changes twice a day instead of just once could that help? Or would it be too stressful to my Fish bareing in mind that I don't think they must be at their healthyest right now : /

After all I've been doing so far I don't think a Fish-in cycle is going to look that hard ; )

...I just worry that I won't be doing it right and the worst will happen.

 

[big_sw2000]

Yep it sounds like a fish cycle is all you need. (And thats not a bike for a fish) sorry.

Rember keep at it, dont loose hart. It will become easier.

I dont think bacteria in a bottle works as well as it saiz, but no harm in adding it.

If your local pet shop can give you some media out of there filter, just see if yu can wedge it in your filter anywhere. It will speed up your tank cycle loads. Even if its only a tiny bit wedge under the foam insert.

Keep at it and have fun, belive me the fun will come, and it will become an enjoyable project

Steve

 

[BlueDragon]

Thanks X )

It's not that it's not fun it's just that I know I've gone so wrong and it's upsetting to know 'cause my Fish are the ones suffering for my mistakes. I really did think I'd understood it all, and now I feel stupid for thinking that.

They make me laugh every day without fail, so they're diffinatly fun little things to have : )

I'll ask for some filter sponge from one of their tanks. I'm sure they won't mind. I'm friends with the owner so I'm sure she'll be able to get me a bit from one tank or other. Does it matter which tank? I mean they have anything from Goldfish to Angels. Does it have to be from a Guppy tank or a Play tank for instance?

 

[big_sw2000]

No any tropical tank should do the job.

Reading through your post, it dose sound like you killed of the bacteria with medication, and the fish sound like they are suffering from amonia. I had an accident with a medication, and killed all my fish as well, so know how you feel.
If you can keep the amonia at 0 by doing water changes everyday, i would say large water changes everyday, then your fish should not be that botherd.
If you manage to ge mature filter media from the pet shop, then things will improve really quickly.

Steve

 

[BlueDragon]

OK, I'll do that. What do you mean by big water changes? Just less than half the tank?

I'll ask for something, I've just thought maybe some of the carbon 'stones'? I have them through the middle of the filter sponge and they look like little black rods, but I suppose it's all the same thing?

I've actually just finished re-filling the tank. Been doing that and replying on here too. I think it's taken about two and a half/three hours, but I think I've done it : ) I'm just going to put the treaters in the water, but I'm going to test it first without any Fish in there and no treaters just to see what it says then. Then I'll do another test tomorrow and see what the differece is. Maybe if I know that then maybe it'll help keep things right?

 

[BlueDragon]

There is apsouloutly no difference in the water test! : (

Ammonia: 0.5

PH: 6.4
KH: 50
GH: 125
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0

How can I have amonia in the water if I've just spent three hours changing it and cleaning everything???

Could I be getting false reading here? I really hope I am.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

There is apsouloutly no difference in the water test! : (

Ammonia: 0.5

PH: 6.4
KH: 50
GH: 125
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0

How can I have amonia in the water if I've just spent three hours changing it and cleaning everything???

Could I be getting false reading here? I really hope I am.

Test your tap water, it often has chloramine in it which releases ammonia when treated with dechlorinator.