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Chocolate gourami

Discussion in 'Gouramis and Anabantoids' started by Hanna, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. Hanna

    Hanna New Member

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    I have 3 chocolate gourami from last few week - 1 male and 2 female (I think, but I'm not sure).I try to buy another 3 (also 1 m + 2 f) to have 6 fish.
    I know that they are extremely delicate - yesterday, my only male led me almost to a heart attack - it turned out to be gray with a black head ... the most like it was a strong, almost lethal stress related to the change of the root! Today he coming back to chase female (but without aggression), that's why I really think it was only stress.
    Currently, my chocolates are in one aquarium with rasbora chilli, habrosus corydoras and caridina. If you had any idea what I can replace crydoras and shrimps (chocolates lose a lot of food, I care about something that is cleaned up) I'm open to suggestions. But rasbora definitely stays, I can recommend them to everyone for chocolates. When I change my tank for chocolade (pH: 5.5, temp: 25 C, KH: 2, water change: 2 x week in 10%, many pistia, more roots, only frozen food 2 x day) chilli show me how red and beautifull they can be.

    Chocolate gouramis are incredibly beautiful fish, but I don't know what is more difficult - to hold them or find some information about them!

    If you know anything about these fish, I will be very grateful for all advice and information. In my language, the only thing I found was in short "harder than discus".

    If someone help mi I can show you few picures - one of them is from yesterday, with my gray male.

    Ps. I'm sorry, but I don't speak perfectly in English.
     
  2. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    Hi and welcome to the forum :)

    Under the area where you write information is a button called "Upload a File". Click that to add pictures. If the pictures are too big for the website, set the camera's resolution to its lowest setting and take some more. The lower resolution will make the images smaller and they should fit on this website. Check the pictures on your pc and find a couple that are clear and show the problem, and post them here. Make sure you turn the camera's resolution back up after you have taken the pics otherwise all your pictures will be small.

    ------------------------
    Stress from tank lights coming on when the room is dark can be an issue and might be why the fish was a weird colour. Fish don't have eyelids and don't tolerate going from complete dark to bright light (or vice versa) instantly.

    In the morning open the curtains or turn the room light on at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the tank light on. This will reduce the stress on the fish and they won't go from a dark tank to a bright tank instantly.

    At night turn the room light on and then turn the tank light off. Wait at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the room light out. This allows the fish to settle down for the night instead of going from a brightly lit tank to complete darkness instantly.

    ------------------------
    You should do bigger water changes. 50-75% water change and gravel clean the substrate once a week. Big water changes dilute nutrients better than small water changes.
    *NB* Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

    ------------------------
    A friend of mine bred chocolate gouramis back in the early 90s. He had a group of them in a tank that was 18 inches long x 10 inches wide x 12 inches high.

    The pH was around 6.0, GH was less than 100ppm, temperature was 27C.

    He had lots of plants in the tank and fed them a couple of times a day with frozen (but defrosted) foods and live brineshrimp.

    He did a big water change once a week and a few months after he got them they bred. I think he fed the babies on Wardleys Liquid Fry Food for Egglayers, which is basically egg yolk. Baby labyrinths (Bettas & Gouramis) are very small and need green water, infusoria or boiled egg yolk for the first 2 weeks. Then they can be fed newly hatched brinehsrimp. The following link has information about culturing food for baby fish.
    https://www.fishforums.net/threads/back-to-basics-when-breeding-fish.448304/
     
  3. Byron

    Byron Member

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    I will add a few things in addition to what Colin posted (I agree).

    First, no mention is made of the tank size and this is important. I have kept this species three times over the past 30 years, and spawned them (or rather they spawned) several times. Males like all gourami males are territorial. I didn't realize just how territorial until one male killed off three other males and fairly quickly. I will post an excerpt from a profile I wrote on this species that may provide useful information. One thing I will point out though is a problem you now have, and that is temperature; this species must be kept at minimum 80F (27 C) as Colin noted; this is minimum but should be adequate. However, your habrosus cories will slowly die at this warmth, so you must remove them from the gourami tank; Corydoras habrosus should not have water warmer than 75-76 F (25 C) max.

    Sphaerichthys osphromenoides

    Family: Osphronemidae, Subfamily Luciocephalinae.

    Origin and Habitat: Malaysian Peninsula, Sumatra and Borneo. Found in peat swamps and blackwater streams in densely forested areas.

    Compatibility/Temperament: Peaceful and timid; males are territorial but if given enough room no injury should result. Best in a species habitat, or may be combined with similar fish having the same water parameter requirements, such as the other three related "Chocolate" gourami species, pygmy sparkling gourami, croaking gourami, rasbora, small-species loaches, shrimp.

    Diet

    Despite a reputation for "fussy," it readily accepts prepared foods like flake and frozen; frozen bloodworms and daphnia are relished.

    Size

    Grows to 2.5 inches maximum.

    Minimum Tank Suggestion

    15-20 US gallons for a pair but preferably larger.

    Water parameters

    Very soft (hardness below 5 dGH) acidic (pH 4 to 6.5 but preferably below 6.0) water, temperature 26-31C/79-88F. In hard or basic water the fish will be stressed. Very prone to skin parasites in unsuitable water parameters or conditions.

    Description

    One of the most delicate and sensitive of the anabantid fishes, but worth the effort in providing the proper environment. A very social species, it must be kept in numbers that will allow it to develop natural behaviours within the group, some of which are fascinating to observe. It requires a well-planted tank with a good covering of floating plants such as Ceratopteris (Water Sprite) and the stem plant Hygrophila difformis (Wisteria) that can be grown such that it continues to extend across the surface. These will also help to keep the light subdued; this species does not do well in brightly-lit aquaria. And the filter flow must be as little as possible, a small sponge filter or a slow-flow canister is ideal.

    It is highly sensitive to water parameters and quality, and should only be introduced to a well matured and biologically balanced planted aquarium. Regular partial water changes maintaining water quality stability are essential. Fluctuations in water parameters or quality often lead to skin parasites, bacteria, and fungus. The temperature should remain at or above 80F.

    Males have a light (creamy white) edge to the dorsal and anal fins, and females have a dark spot on the caudal fin; males may have a reddish-brown hue over the body. Unlike many of the anabantids that are bubblenest spawners, this species is a maternal mouthbrooder. The pair circle each other and the eggs are laid on the substrate in a shallow depression, then immediately picked up by the female and retained in her bucal cavity for up to 14 days before the fry are released. With a thick cover of floating plants, several fry will usually survive.

    In common with all the species in the suborder Anabantoidei, this fish possesses an auxiliary breathing organ called the labyrinth, named because of the maze-like arrangement of passages that allow the fish to extract oxygen from air taken in at the surface. The fish must use this accessory method, and it allows the fish to live in oxygen-poor muddy waters. To accommodate this, the aquarium must be kept covered to maintain warm moist air above the surface.

    This species is nearly identical to Sphaerichthys selatanensis [Vierke 1979] which was originally considered a sub-species; Roberts (1989) established the latter as a distinct species, confirmed by Kottelat et al. (1993). S. osphromenoides has a third vertical creamy-white band running from just before the dorsal fin at the top to just behind the ventral fins at the bottom; this is not present on S. selatanensis. There are now four recognized distinct species within the genus, the other two less commonly seen being S. acrostoma and S. vaillanti.

    This fish was described in 1860 by G. Canestrini. The genus name derives from the Greek for a conglobate or spheric fish. The species epithet is also from the Greek and means "to look like osphromenus," a reference to the Giant Gourami, Osphronemus gorami.

    References:

    Kottelat, Maurice, A. J. Whitten, S. N. Kartikasari and S. Wirjoatmodjo (1993), Freshwater fishes of Western Indonesia and Sulawesi, Periplus Editions, Hong Kong.

    Roberts, T.R. (1989), "The freshwater fishes of Western Borneo (Kalimantan Barat, Indonesia)," Memoirs of the California Academy of Science, Number 14.​
     
  4. Hanna

    Hanna New Member

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    Colin_T w momencie, gdy mój mężczyzna stracił kolory, jedyną zmianą był root. Światło świeciło przez kilka godzin. Ale bardzo dziękuję za informacje - postaram się pamiętać, aby zapalić światło w pokoju.

    Zacznę też robić więcej zmian w wodzie, jeśli uważasz, że nie zaszkodzi bakteriom - zawsze uczono mnie, że zamienniki większe niż 50% mogą zabić biologię w wodzie.
    Chlor w wodzie martwi się o szczęście, aby utrzymać niskie pH Używam tylko wody RO.

    Jeśli chodzi o reprodukcję, mam pewne doświadczenie w tym zakresie - zdobywam kilka razy z dwurogimi gourami i raz z betta.

    Byron, moje akwarium ma 54l, to prawdopodobnie 15 galonów. W akwarium mam obecnie 3 czekoladki, 10 chilli rasbora, 4 cory habrosus i może 10 małych krewetek. Chciałbym dodać 3 gourami (1 + 2). Jeśli uważasz, że zbiornik jest za mały lub że powinienem ograniczyć ilość ryb, napisz do mnie - czytam to forum od pewnego czasu i wiem, że ty (i Colin) naprawdę wiesz, co piszesz.

    Widzę, że masz dużo wiedzy o rybach z Borneo. Czy masz pomysł, jakie ryby mógłbym dać na dno zamiast corysów i krewetek? Ograniczają mnie podnosząc temperaturę w zbiorniku. Z drugiej strony, naprawdę tego potrzebuję, ponieważ mój mężczyzna przy karmieniu musi najpierw pokazać, a samice go podziwiać - połowa jedzenia spada na dno, gdzie gourami nie chcą go jeść!
     
  5. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    you're going to have to rewrite that in English if you want a response :)
     
  6. Hanna

    Hanna New Member

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    Colin_T when my man lost his colors, the only change was root. The light on from few hours. But thank you very much for the information - I will try to remember about light in room.

    I'll also start doing more water changes if you think it will not kill the bacteria - I've always been taught that replacements more than 50% can kill biology in the water.
    About chlorine in the water I don't must care - I using only RO water.

    When it comes to reproduction, I have some experience in this area - I get fry few times with dwarf gourami and once with betta.

    Byron, my aquarium is 54l, probably 15 gallons. In the aquarium I have 3 chocolates, 10 rasbora chillies, 3 cory habrosus and maybe 10 caridina. I would like to add 3 gourami (1 + 2). If you think that the tank is too small or that I should limit the amount of fish, write to me - I've been reading this forum for some time and I know that you (and Colin) really know what you're writing.

    I see that you have a lot of knowledge about fish from Borneo. Do you have an idea of what fish I could give to the bottom instead of corys and shrimps? They limit me by raising the temperature in the tank. On the other hand, I really need it, because my male must first show when feeding, and the females admire him - half of the food falls to the bottom, where gourami do not want to eat it!

    Ps. I'm sorry... Yesterday I was tired, so I used google transletor in this web. It was translate my aswer too! I didn't saw that.
     
    #6 Hanna, Jun 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  7. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    Big water changes don't affect the filter bacteria. You can change 90% of the water and it won't make any difference to the filter bacteria as long as the new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank, and as long as it has a similar temperature and chemistry (pH and GH) to the tank water.
     
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  8. Byron

    Byron Member

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    Thank you for the kind words. To your question, you do not have room for any more fish. Three chocolate gourami will be it, though the rasbora are fine, probably a good idea as well. The habrosus cory must be removed as they cannot take that high a temperature for long. As for shrimp, I've no experience, but as the gourami are mouthbrooders, the shrimp should not be a problem (thinking of eating eggs). Make sure there are lots of floating plants, literally thick with them.

    The tank is too small to consider any other fish. As for the food, feed less. Use a food that will float as long as possible. I used a good quality flake food (Omega One and New Life Spectrum brands are what I use now). Frozen (or live) daphnia is excellent. Food getting to the bottom should not be a problem if you don't overfeed; and the shrimp may help, or you can get small harmless snails like the Malaysian Livebearing Snail--I had dozens of these in my tanks when I had Chocolate Gourami.
     
  9. seangee

    seangee Member

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    The shrimp will sort out any leftover food as long as you don't feed to much. They will probably breed too.
    Do you add minerals back in to your RO water? The shrimp (caridina) do need some minerals to thrive. I use this https://www.amazon.co.uk/SaltyShrim...=salty+shrimp&qid=1561492977&s=gateway&sr=8-2 in my shrimp tank with RO water. The water will be pretty much perfect for the Gouramis. I don't know too much about their exact requirements but most fish do need some minerals which are not found in pure RO water.
     
  10. Byron

    Byron Member

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    This species (chocolate gourami) requires very soft water; it cannot be too soft, as zero GH is perfect. Mine were in this. With a corresponding acidic pH. [See the profile I posted above.] I would not add any mineral for shrimp as this is counter to the needs of the fish and these are very sensitive fish.

    There are shrimp suited to soft water; I've no idea which they are, but I believe they became popular through Takashi Amano's "nature" aquariums (ADA). If you can find those, may work.
     
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  11. seangee

    seangee Member

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    I stand corrected. Neocaridina, or cherry shrimp (I assume this is what is meant by caridina), do require some calcium or they are likely to experience failed moults. So they are most likely not suitable tank mates in this case.
     
  12. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    Most people that breed chocolate gouramis have them in a single species tank so they can cater to the fish's requirements. Most chocolate gouramis are wild caught and most are on the endangered species list so it is imperative you provide them with ideal conditions and look at tank mates after you have met the needs of the gouramis.
     
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  13. Hanna

    Hanna New Member

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    Seangee no, Neocaridina (cherry, sakura, rill and fire shrimp) is not the same like Caridina (cristal red, cristal black, or mine - tiger mix).

    Neocaricina need pH 7-7,5. They don't like soft water... Caridina need soft water, like pH 6.0-6.5


    I really want change my shrimps for something different - water is to warm for them, pH and GH are to small and I have secend tank for shrimps... But I can't found anthing better. And the most suprise - mine shrimps are breeding in this tank! So maybe they don't feel really bad?


    For the end - my boy :). Please, tell me it is boy...
    [​IMG]
     

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